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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
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Any recommendation for a book on tool marking?

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Author Topic: Any recommendation for a book on tool marking?  (Read 253 times)
David
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« on: January 23, 2015, 02:35:09 pm »

Hello all (especially George),

Does anyone know of a good book that will show or teach how to tell tool markings/polish on jades or other hard stones?

I read a few articles online from different sources, but not too satisfactory.

I would like to be able to tell the marks or polish done via traditional versus electrical tools. Also the kind of marking caused by abrasive paste versus diamond tipped/coated tools.

Would you please let me know, thank you.

Best Regards,
David
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 03:04:09 pm by David » Report Spam   Logged

David

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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 02:50:04 pm »

Dear David,
    I never even thought about asking for such material, and can't begin to think who could supply it.
George? Charll? You guys are the closest to the subject I can think of. Any ideas?
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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David
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 03:06:30 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you. I was thinking one day when I look at "suzhou" bottles inscriptions, I would like to see whether they look modern tooled or not.

As I just noticed recently another bottle where the inscription makes no sense to me relative to carving.

Shabbat Shalom
David
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George
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 01:56:53 pm »

I do not know of a book that shows close up ( macro ) tooling imaging.. But I will go on a hunt for one David..  Smiley
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David
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 05:39:49 pm »

Dear George,

Thank you very much.  Smiley  And please do not worry if there are none out there.

Warmly and much appreciatively,
David
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George
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 07:44:40 pm »

In the meantime while I search, here is a good read..

http://www.asianart.com/articles/hoffman/

Technical Considerations

Although no truly objective, scientific test exists for dating jade, technical analysis can be less subjective than stylistic, art-historical methods. A careful study of the tooling methods used to produce the carved jade is perhaps the single most reliable method of dating ancient jades.
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 08:10:48 pm »

Here is another really good read covering Islamic and Chinese stone carving..

Looks like our best bet may be to closely research the book references following the article bottom of page.

http://www.academia.edu/8378336/Carving_techniques_of_Fatimid_rock_crystal_ewers_10_12th_cent._A.D._

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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 11:12:57 pm »

Dear George,

Thank you for finding the links and the suggestion, I will read them carefully tonight and check out the references.

With gratitude,
David

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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 02:47:24 am »

Dear George,

Both articles are very good, Hoffman's is more general, but the questions are very good. It would be nice if he included some answers to his question. But, very useful to use as a checklist for me in the future.

From his references, this one seems most promising. But, could not find one and even if I did, not sure if I can understand it in Chinese simplified...
Yang Boda. Zhuanshi Guyu Banwei Yu Jiankao. (Commentaries on Archaic Jades and Their Fakes.) Beijing: 1998. (Text in Chinese)

While checking him out, this one seems to be good too, but same concern and issue.
Yang, Boda. 1993. Zhenwan diaoke, biyanhu 珍玩雕刻、鼻煙壺 [Appreciating carvings and snuff bottles]. Taibei: Youshi wenhua shiye gongsi.

I read his article on glass in one of the museum catalog where the american scholar, translated it. It was really good (Chinese Glass of Qing Dynasty regarding Robert H. Clague Collection).


Especially, informative to tool marking is the Carving Technique one. (How did you even find it?  Shocked Very impressive!  Cheesy ) I never thought anyone will go that far/deep to do such research on antique crystals. This is so different from my image of archeology!

I enjoyed especially section 4 and want to sleep on it and read it again tomorrow. It has been a long while since I last read a good scientific paper. Thank you for finding this one.

I think reference 5, 6, 12, 17, 19 and 21 will be interesting. But, the key one I think will be 5 and 17. Unfortunately except for 5, all the others seems to be from some kind of specialty journals or research paper. I checked a few and they are pretty steep for an article.

Luckily, 5 is a book and I found some on Amazon, it also was quoted 3 time after the first reference in 5. Since it is also a subject I have interest in, I went ahead and ordered a good used copy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007IV8EC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28LGL409KF3VH

And for good measure, I bought a catalog that the same author wrote for under 7.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0571085989/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1VL5VILF8V5J6

Happily, with lots of gratitude for digging these 2 up! Very impressed.  Smiley
David

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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 03:10:06 am »

Dear George,

Eric Hoffman, actually have a website.
http://hoffmanjade.com/pages/book1.htm

I know you are always looking for good book. He also have a list of books for sale (and jades/bottles!).

But check the price with Amazon, I recognize a couple that I bough way cheaper.

Warmly,
David
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 03:14:58 am by David » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 03:55:08 am »

Dear George,
    You never fail to impress me with your ability to find serious material on any subject relating to snuff bottles, carving, minerals, etc.
    Thank you for this info, and thank you to David, for asking. I don't think I ever thought to look at the question of dating and authenticating carving from this angle.
Best,
 Joey
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 04:02:35 am »

Daer Joey,

You're welcome,  Grin I need to go sleep...

Your energy level is amazing!

Chuckling, have a good day.  Smiley
David
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 04:07:18 am »

Dear David,
     In Jerusalem it is 12:05 noon. I slept from 02:30 - 09:30. And it seems like I have amazing energy, because I am basically sleeping, eating, praying, and on the Forum!  Grin
Sleep well,
Joey


Daer Joey,

You're welcome,  Grin I need to go sleep...

Your energy level is amazing!

Chuckling, have a good day.  Smiley
David

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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 10:46:51 am »

Thanks Joey, and thank you David for the summery over the references.. I have not yet, but will dig further into the ones you noted..  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 02:28:41 am »

Dear Joey,

Yesterday (at California) it almost feels like you were online the whole day!   Shocked

Dear George,

After reading the technical paper a second time, I think I am understanding something vaguely. Maybe a 3rd time and then that book will help solidify.

Warmly,
David
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 06:28:31 am »

Dear David,
    it felt like that to me in Jerusalem, too!  Roll Eyes
I got up, went to the loo, then went to my computer, intending to just see if there was anything urgent, before doing my morning prayers, my daily 40 min. workout, and a 90 min. relaxation technique.
Three hours later, i was still on the computer, and on the Forum!
  Whoops! Did it again today!   Embarrassed
  I'm off now.
Be Well, everyone.
Joey


Dear Joey,

Yesterday (at California) it almost feels like you were online the whole day!   Shocked

Dear George,

After reading the technical paper a second time, I think I am understanding something vaguely. Maybe a 3rd time and then that book will help solidify.

Warmly,
David

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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

David
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 12:07:33 pm »

Dear Joey,

That sounds familiar...  Grin My wife says I need to use a timer and I only get 60 minutes a day or 7 hour total a week to read/write posts.

I might need to do something like that, between the forum and my readings, I had skipped a lot of my workouts too.

Warmly,
David
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Joey
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 06:29:14 pm »

Well, it's now 02:30am and I need to get to bed. Again!  Shocked
I might adopt your wife's suggestion, to get more done then sleeping, eating, praying, and Internet. Roll Eyes
Best,
 Joey
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David
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 10:56:56 pm »

Dear Joey,

I think our personality requires a timer. Thinking back, I think it was when we were both checking on line and both answering in response to answers/questions in interleaved fashion.

Too funny  Grin
David
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 04:55:29 am »

And I also did the exact same thing with YT in Singapore yesterday, as well! This is too addictive. Roll Eyes
Shoot! I have now been on 2 hrs.!  Shocked
Oh Well,
Joey



Dear Joey,

I think our personality requires a timer. Thinking back, I think it was when we were both checking on line and both answering in response to answers/questions in interleaved fashion.

Too funny  Grin
David
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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