Questions on Collector's Book of Snuff Bottles

[George]

Thank you for that catalog reference YT..

I was very tempted to purchase the only copy I could find online.. But pinching pennies for a bit..

Maybe someone else would like this copy..

http://auctioncatalogs.com/product/christies-important-chinese-snuff-bottles-from-a-distinguished-american-collection-hong-kong-10714-sale-3328/

[YT]

You are welcome George. I was trying to get David to see more imperial bottles so that he can judge for himself what to buy in future.

Inside this sales, there is an imperial ruby-pink carved glass bottle. I was told that the colour is derive from a chemical reaction using real gold. I'm not sure how is that possible but just wanted to share with everyone.

Cheers,
YT

[David]

Dear YT,

Thank you, I will look around for that one.

I did notice that I like the catalogs that Sotheby's Hong Kong and London makes. I only have 2 right now (a couple that I hope is similarly well written or photoed are in the mail).

Important Chinese Snuff Bottles Including a Private European Collection.
    Hong Kong Wednesday Nov. 5, 1997

Important Chinese Snuff Bottles From the Collections of The Stone Picking Studio
    London Wednesday, 21st June 1995


Warmly,
David

[David]

Dear George,

Thank you sharing the location of the catalog, I would like to buy it, but it is over my price limit for an important level or noted collector's catalogue (30 including shipping).

  I will wait and see if they start showing up on other sites.

Warm regards,
David

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear YT,
   ALL ruby red glass, whether Chinese or European contains powdered gold in the mix. The 'ruby-pink' as well, though I was taught to call it 'crushed raspberry'... 
Best,
  Joey

You are welcome George. I was trying to get David to see more imperial bottles so that he can judge for himself what to buy in future.

Inside this sales, there is an imperial ruby-pink carved glass bottle. I was told that the colour is derive from a chemical reaction using real gold. I'm not sure how is that possible but just wanted to share with everyone.

Cheers,
YT

[YT]

Dear YT,
   ALL ruby red glass, whether Chinese or European contains powdered gold in the mix. The 'ruby-pink' as well, though I was taught to call it 'crushed raspberry'... 
Best,
  Joey

Dear Joey,

Thank you for the clarification. I was trying to find out online and stumble onto this. "ruby glass,  deep-red glass deriving its colour from gold chloride. Originally known in the ancient world, its rediscovery was long sought by European alchemists and glassmakers, who believed it had curative properties. A Hamburg physician, Andreas Cassius, in 1676 reported his discovery of the red colouring properties of a solution of gold chloride, subsequently called purple of Cassius."

Crushed Raspberry sounds so yummy 

Cheers,
YT

[David]

Dear YT and Joey,

I read somewhere that they also used crushed ruby, emerald, sapphire etc... for the respective color. I think it was Yuan family, is that true or just a legend?

Is the correct snuff bottle ruby red glass color the ones shown in Bob Steven's book? If I have an older tourist bottle that used ruby red glass, and I lay it next to a picture from his book (like the one where a red sun is rising from the ocean). Can I rely on that comparison to tell me it is a match in color?

Here is Richard Zsigmondy's lecture for proving that the solution used is gold colloidal and earned a nobel prize!
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1925/zsigmondy-lecture.pdf

Hard to read, and not too relevant to snuff bottles  , my engineering part of the mind crashed trying to follow it...

Here is a good site for a general understanding of colloidal:
http://www.whatiscolloidal.com
http://www.whatiscolloidal.com/colloidal-gold/

Here is an interesting read from Corning Glass
http://www.cmog.org/article/gold-ruby-glass

Did the German taught the Qing glass makers how to make ruby glass or is it the other way round?

There also seems to be different shade of red for the snuff bottles, like the earlier ruby blood darker plain ones and the latter brighter ruby red carved ones. Is that also an indications for dating? I am guessing that the concentration of gold drops (and we move from pigeon blood ruby red to neon pink  )?

Warmly,
David

[David]

Dear Joey and YT,

Thinking on this some more, and flipping through some catalogs and books.

When they mention emerald green (deep, light), sapphire blue (deep, translucent...), ruby red (dark, bright), raspberry, orange, purple etc..

When you view an actual imperial or "important" glass overlay or bottle, do you really feel that it looks like the respective gems?

Does the glass on the Imperial level of snuff bottle really have the slightly violet/blueish tinge of Burma Pigeon red, the velvety silky blue of a Kashmir, and the deep brilliant oily green of a Columbian? No photos can really show the look of these gems, so is it similar for the Imperial glass snuff bottle?

Is that why they faceted the older ruby bottles? To look like a bottle carved from a Burma King's ruby?

Very Curious Regards,
David

[OIB]

David,

Thanks for your earlier post from Conning Glass. Interesting read.

Inn Bok

[David]

Hello Inn Bok,

You're welcome.

Best Regards,
David

[OIB]

David,

I have posted another glass bottle with overlay in my collection under the original thread of yours ' single carved glass bottle ' category. Please look out for it for some discussion on Yangzhou seal type carving.

Inn Bok

[David]

Hello Inn Bok,

I looked some more at the 5 Hulus ( your Artful one, the 2 nice ones with band from the museum, the one without band from the museum, and YT's dream one).

I noticed that the 2 nice ones with band and YT's dream one, are made such that the bottom portion is not significantly wider, and the overlays are carved in such a way that if you slide it head in or bottom in to a tight pouch or waist band it will not catch.

While your artful one, and the museum one with no band all seems likely to catch. When I take a ruler and line up the outer most ground at the top round with the outer most ground at the bottom round, I can see that the artful one's bottom sticks out the most followed by the museum one without the band.

Is this a possible criteria to determine if a Hulu glass bottle is older (form fitted for waist band, tight wrap pouch, sleeves) or newer (pockets).

If I rank by age of the 3 museum, is it fair to say the white on red/pink is the oldest, followed by red on bubble, and then red on white (maybe even modern)?

If I say amongst the 3 museum ones ones, the red on bubble has the highest workmanship. Will that be correct?

I feel that one is the smallest and will feel the smoothest, and the cut/polish of the band is very sharp/clean to my eyes. And it's rigidity -I think- contrasts beautifully with the soft curves of the vine. The vines also do not become thicker at the extremities like the red/pink ground one. And I think it is hard to carve left slanted gourds/vine to be so similar to right slanted gourds/vine, so a higher level of skill.

Please let me know if these are fair/correct conclusions to make from looking at these photos.

Thank you and Best Regards,
David

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear YT,
    It looked yummy, too! It was one of those larger square octagonal ones with a round panel front and reverse, each carved with a swimming carp.
    They were always dear, but worth it.
Best,
 Shabbat Shalom,
   Joey

Dear YT,
   ALL ruby red glass, whether Chinese or European contains powdered gold in the mix. The 'ruby-pink' as well, though I was taught to call it 'crushed raspberry'... 
Best,
  Joey

Dear Joey,

Thank you for the clarification. I was trying to find out online and stumble onto this. "ruby glass,  deep-red glass deriving its colour from gold chloride. Originally known in the ancient world, its rediscovery was long sought by European alchemists and glassmakers, who believed it had curative properties. A Hamburg physician, Andreas Cassius, in 1676 reported his discovery of the red colouring properties of a solution of gold chloride, subsequently called purple of Cassius."

Crushed Raspberry sounds so yummy 

Cheers,
YT

[YT]

Dear Joey,

Thank you for the insightful information. 

Cheers,
YT

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear YT,
    My pleasure!
Shabbat Shalom,
   Joey