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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 21, 2018, 01:51:13 pm
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Single Carved Glass Overlay

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Author Topic: Single Carved Glass Overlay  (Read 1297 times)
Joey
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2014, 12:43:08 pm »

Dear David,
    Thank you. My sister in law's cousin was praying in the synagogue in Jerusalem attacked by Islamic terrorists last Thurs.  He has multiple stab wounds from both knives and axes on his head and body; and the doctors say there will be brain damage. He's a 54 yr. old father of 10, who was busy praying in a small prayer hall in a very unattractive neighbourhood of Jerusalem, far from everything.
    Best,
      Joey



Hi Joey,

You're too kind, I am glad it helped and wish that everything will be better.

I will try to make the other posting similar to this then. I was going to make a cold hard scientific sounding one for the next, but I think I actually had way more fun trying to copy him.  Grin

Warm/sympathetic you're welcome,
David

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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2014, 09:40:23 pm »

Joey,

Sorry to hear about the injury inflicted on your relative. I was quite shocked to read about the attack in our local newspaper last week.

Inn Bok
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George
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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2014, 10:20:31 pm »

I am also very sorry to hear about your relative Joey...
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Wattana
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2014, 11:09:18 pm »

Dear Joey,

My heartfelt wishes go out to you for your relative's fullest recovery.

Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2014, 11:58:02 pm »

Oh Dear........

Sorry to hear about the news..... Hope that he will recover the soonest

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2014, 01:32:02 am »

Hi Joey,

That is horrible... and so senseless...

Why is it so hard for people to be content with what they have and live in peace with each other?
 Angry

I hope he will pull through smoothly, and my heart is sadden for his kids and your sister.
David
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2014, 12:44:58 pm »

Dear Inn Bok, George, Tom, Pin, and David,
   
           Thank you all for your prayers and kind words.
           The terrorists will not succeed in beating us; they don't seem to get that they just make us angrier and more determined to succeed in strengthening our hold on our Land.  They have been doing this kind of thing since the 1880s, when there were 90,000 Jews and 140,000 Arabs.
           Now there are 6.4 million Jews and 1.2 million Arabs. And their population is starting to contract because they aren't having kids, and ours is expanding, because we are having loads of kids. It's estimated that in 30 years,  there will be 9 million Jews in Israel, and about a million Arabs, of which 300,000 will be Christian (today, 160,000 are).
          We are praying that Howie and the other 9 wounded will have a speedy and full recovery, G-D Willing.
     Best,
      Joey
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2014, 02:24:38 pm »

Shalu Shalom Yerushalayim... Hope it is used properly  Smiley.
David
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:30:19 pm by David » Report Spam   Logged

David

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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2014, 03:06:49 am »

David,

i post this here instead of under the topic of ' snuff bottle books '.

This modern bottle has the usual Chinese rebus and carved characters ( yangzhou style ).

For sharing.

Inn Bok


* 154.JPG (86.72 KB, 478x640 - viewed 17 times.)
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2014, 03:07:58 am »

David,

( continuation of earlier post )

Inn Bok


* 155.JPG (84.24 KB, 478x640 - viewed 19 times.)

* 156.JPG (85.7 KB, 478x640 - viewed 18 times.)
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2014, 01:41:51 pm »

Hello Inn Bok,

Thank you for sharing this modern bottle with me, so far I can see

1) the white ground looks uneven as the reflected lights are distorted
2) Bottle shape is not of the flatten kinds.
3) Very crowded and no defined areas of sky, middle, ground.
4) the neck is not symmetric and does not have a defined consistent transition between the neck to the chest/shoulder. (Is this what Steven, YT and a few others were talking about?)

5) The tree still looks un natural. I actually figured out after reading a few more page of a book. The trees of modern day bottle do not observe the 4 branch off the main trunk nor do they follow the rule of having eyes/space distributed inside the foliage, and having the tips of the branch pointing to paths of natural growth. But, I think is one of the best modern carved I had seen (wood portion wise) with my limited experience.


How would you rank the carving of the characters?

Is this one consider a top level or higher level modern workmanship?


Looking at this one and the other modern ones, plus the museum ones. Is it safe for me to say that the red overlay of dragon/phoenix I have is a higher quality modern work or a possible later snuff bottle or medicine container?

Aside from the modern Hulu of double overlay (by the way, how tall is it?), I find it hard to see how the other 5 modern or near modern are technically more challenging or contain a better/sensible rebus or wishes (especially when you take size into consideration, mine is 4.3cm tall and 3.7cm diameter at widest).

Thank you and Best Regards,
David
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 01:43:37 pm by David » Report Spam   Logged

David

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« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2014, 10:30:36 pm »

Hello Inn Bok,

Looking at the characters of the modern one versus old, I think I see the difference now.

The character size of the old one, each one takes up roughly the same square. And the proportion of the sub characters (not sure how to say this in english) are balanced. They also use real seal script while the one you showed seems to be using normal script with a few likeness of seal script.

Why do modern ones (glass carving, stone carving, inside painting etc...), want to put so much carving on a bottle? Is it not better to focus on make one nature tree and a pair of beautiful creature or person, with the nice simple clean spacing, like the old ones?

I also do not understand, why they don't carve the trees, grass, mushrooms etc... more natural? Is it because they figure that it is just secondary to the animals or people?

Best Regards,
David
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2014, 10:36:41 pm »

Hi David,

Your analysis is valid.

If you want to know about your dragon overlay bottle, you should not compare with Yangzhou overlay, because your bottle has nothing to do with Yangzhou bottle. You should look more similar ones with yours.

Here is a top quality ruby red on snowflake overlay, compare the carving and polishing, and color with yours. the design of Yangzhou bottle can be very simple elegant , while other overlay can be very sophisticated and busy, you don't judge other bottles with same criterias as Yangzhou bottles.

Steven


* overlay.jpg (116.06 KB, 1107x418 - viewed 36 times.)

* overlay3.jpg (69.31 KB, 1105x456 - viewed 28 times.)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:43:37 pm by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2014, 01:27:31 am »

Hi Steven,

Thank you, for checking my thoughts/assumption. It is so nice to have you confirm or point out my errors.

I am interested in both Yang Zhou  and single color overlay in the area of glass bottle (plus one smooth surface).

So, I am taking the opportunity to learn from Inn Bok about Yang Zhou bottles as much as I can.

That pine tree is amazing! I love the way the limbs cross itself and the trunk, plus the roots. This one completely blows my "bottle" away.

Is this a top quality modern bottle?

Gratefully,
David
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« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2014, 09:58:38 am »

Hi David,

That is a top quality 18th bottle, most of the top quality bottles were made 18th. ofcoz some were made 19th as well.

In my opinion, the Modern bottles will never be able to get close to this quality, since the modern craftman don't have the skill and patience. Maybe inside painting industry is different,since the top quality modern inside painting bottles have been recognized and appreciated, so the top artists can making a living by painting bottles ,and developing the better skills and creativities in new bottles. But the modern glass overlay bottles have not been recognized and appreciated much, its only sold with little money compared with the efforts involved to make high quality bottles, so the whole industry is not growing,  ofcoz the better quality bottles will not be made or being made.

Steven   
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joearp
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« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2014, 01:19:52 pm »

Here is a simple little dragon bottle that is single carved glass overlay.  It is an early bottle that appeals to me. Hope you enjoy viewing it. 


* 2014-12-12_08-44-58_214.jpg (24.2 KB, 313x448 - viewed 25 times.)

* 2014-12-12_08-45-09_450.jpg (17.4 KB, 282x448 - viewed 20 times.)
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2014, 04:15:12 pm »

Dear David,
    I just saw this.
Yes, used perfectly!
Sadly, Rabbi Haim (Howie) Rothman is NOT doing well. He was the worst injured of the 8 survivors of the attack (2 had died between my writing you all and a day later), but we are still praying he will improve.
Thank you,
 Shabbat Shalom,
 Joey


Shalu Shalom Yerushalayim... Hope it is used properly  Smiley.
David
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2014, 04:22:26 pm »

Dear Steven & Jo,
   Beautiful bottles! Thank you for posting them.
   Another problem with the modern bottles is the quality of the glass. The craftsman working with it knows it will degrade in 10-15 years, so has no interest in investing time in something which will be thrown out a few years later. So even if he/she was prepared to invest more time, 'for the art's sake', there would be no reason to.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2014, 05:07:35 pm »

Thanks Joey for additional explanation !

Also thanks Jo for sharing us a beautiful bottle, I personally like ruby red on clear glass more than snowflake glass, that is a wonderful example.

Steven
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2014, 07:48:54 pm »

Quote
Another problem with the modern bottles is the quality of the glass. The craftsman working with it knows it will degrade in 10-15 years, so has no interest in investing time in something which will be thrown out a few years later. So even if he/she was prepared to invest more time, 'for the art's sake', there would be no reason to.

Hold Your Pony Mister!   Cheesy   Joey, this is a bit of a generalization on modern glass snuff bottles.  Many of us here have some rather high quality contemporary (post 1950ís) and new (post 2000) glass bottles that are very well done and will never suffer from degradation unless dropped.
 
However, I will agree that many of the cheap glass bottles do and/or will have problems.  And yes, I even had a fairly nice imitation Malachite and Lapis glass overlay bottle that I discarded because the acid used sometime in the process caused deterioration of the overlays which began to flake off and crumble with time.

Charll   
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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