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My collection of fake painted bottles

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David
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« on: November 02, 2014, 01:18:53 pm »

Please note if you see the following notes on my posting. It means that those were purchased prior to joining this forum and starting to learn about this area. I will take one person's advice and only post (after 12/1/2014) those that I think are tourist/student bottle.

Please note: These were purchased prior to my joining this forum. All were bought prior to me taking a more serious view of learning about this area. So, please give constructive comments regarding, why this is a tourist/student bottle (if it is), and within this category, is it a good piece or not.
Hi all,

It took a while, but I think I identified all my obviously fake paint bottles. Unfortunately, there is most likely 2 more in the mail over the Atlantic, as I used my own self made criteria...  Grin

Hence these plus those 2 will be known as the David's Collection of Photo Lithography Bottles.

I am still fooling around with the photographing after reading your threads on how to make a photo box and etc.., once I get the hang of it, I will submit the other 5 that might still belong to this collection.   Undecided

But, I will hopefully present these bottles I like in the best possible light.

Best Regards,
David

PS, Enjoy and don't laugh too hard!


* IMG_1787.jpg (169.27 KB, 1824x696 - viewed 60 times.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 12:39:13 pm by David » Report Spam   Logged

David

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David
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 01:22:27 pm »

And... while we are at it enjoying a collection at my level.

Here for your viewing pleasure is an "antique, rare, ebay styled Chinese Imari for the export market", acquired for the princely sum of about 5 bucks  Grin 

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!


* IMG_1788.jpg (134.83 KB, 1294x806 - viewed 31 times.)

* IMG_1790.jpg (131.57 KB, 1319x1176 - viewed 40 times.)
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Steven
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 01:52:38 pm »

Dear David,

Thank you for sharing! It seems that you have paid a quite lot for your lesson.Smiley , but at least that you can tell what is the real inside painting bottle, what is the photo enhanced bottles, that is pretty good start.

Regarding the little cup or bowl, its obviously not a chinese ware even with a Chenhua mark, its a typical Japanese style, and I suspected its a fairly new one, I have a couple of similar style cup with same mark, I will share with you once I have the photo taken.

Steven
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George
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 01:58:33 pm »

Do not feel to bad David.. I know a collector who figured out that 1/3 of his very large Modern IP collection was photo faked bottles ..

 
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 02:07:58 pm »

Dear David,
Steven is right, that cup is still hot from the kiln:9 as we say for new items. Chinese imari, which is much finer than the original Japanese imari, has been mainly manufactured in the first half of the 18th century. It is easily identifiable from the original Japanese imari. Chinese imari has a much clear and limpid blue, a brighter red, a more thin potting and the painting style is more elegant (at least to my taste).
Kind regards
Giovanni
PS: you photography skills are improving.
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David
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 02:55:27 pm »

Hi Steven and George,

Thank you for the kind words. I hope the other 5 are hand drawn, but a few of them looks like to have either the lithography lines touched up with a brush or the painter is using a very dry brush...

 Cheesy I am very disciplined and looked everywhere but ebay. All the small ones are 10-50, the 3 big one are 50-75 , and the only one above 100 is the calligraphy one for 120 (and I would still pay that amount even if I knew it is a photo fake).

The 2 big ones are funny to me.

The fat one with 100 kid, actually have 104 kids printed. 99 boys, 1 very well hidden girl, and 4 obvious girl (girls have red ribbon).

A: hahaha, artist made a mistake and drew 104 kids
owner: 4 are girls! see the red ribbon? so 100 son drawing!
B: HAHAHA, are you blind? See that hidden girl there? how does 99 make 100?
owner's option 1) I hold the collect bottle, so I am the 100th son, HAHA!
or option 2) The chinese like to use 99 when drawing for 100  Wink


The fat lady one is not as fun, but it only shows 92 (or 94) drawn. The rest are tiny stick figures or little heads in the room. Like a "Find Waldo" bottle.


Hi Giovanni,

Thanks for the compliment. I will fool around more with photo taking (never had that as a hobby), we have an old saying (lose on the people, but don't lose on the formation). So, I hope to take as good quality a photo I can.

The cup and saucer is just for fun, I thought it is a neat thing to have a laugh with when my friend come over  Wink

Warm Regards,
David
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 11:59:17 am »

Hi Giovanni,

Jumping over from the other thread George started. Taking my ebay styled chinese imari fake as an example. If you don't look at the "exquisite workmanship and wonderful colors", and just look at the mark. How to confirm the mark is fake?
I noted
1) the 6 characters are not written very well, a few strokes seems to be written by someone like me
2) it is missing the circle seals around the mark
3) I see the tapered edge of the base
4) I did not see the marks left by the things that japanese use to hold porcelains when firing
5) I compared the strokes to 2-3 "known" samples on the other site and a few appraiser site, and could not find a match.



Can you imagine the look on my friend?

After I very seriously explain the "significance" of "true" cup antique copying that guy from the auction holding that rooster cup up high, head tilted in awe and deference.

The I carefully place the cup back and unwrap the plate, and introduce it as even more important. Hand it to him and drop it!  Grin   I can't wait!

David
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Steven
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 01:24:30 am »

Hi David,

Re hundred kids bottle, In chinese, the number 百 hundred doesn't need to be exactly one hundred, it means many. So hundred kids bottle really don't need have one hundred kids painted.

Re the Mark, there is absolutely no right mark or wrong mark, some very crudely written mark can be right, some perfectly written mark can be wrong. you have to put the mark and wares together to make it right or wrong.

Steven
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David
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 12:02:34 pm »

Hi Steven,

Thank you, I understand. But, it makes it more interesting to imagine back to a time when friends come visit (and there is only 3 channels on the TV and considered impolite to turn tv or radio on when there are guests) with the sole purpose of spending time together.

Then instead of the cursory 5-10 minutes of looking at a whole bottle collection, each single bottle will be picked up, admired and discussed.

Anyhow, for everything I collect, I try to imagine a scenario where it is enjoyable for the original owner or what a fake's original owner might do.

If the seller is telling me the truth, those 3 larger bottles were brought back in the early 80's by her husband.


That is why I am quite confused by antiques...

David
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 04:34:50 pm »

Dear David,
     You made the important statement near the end of your last message:"If the seller is telling me the truth..."
      She could be lying; she could be remembering wrongly; she might be telling the truth.
But the object, if you know how to 'interrogate' it correctly, CAN'T lie. Steven is great  at getting the truth out of the snuff bottle, even over the internet; Giovanni, especially in ceramic wares. I need to have it in my hand, and not always even then.
      But the late Robert Kleiner, when looking at a then new acquisition of mine which confused him, said, "an object when looked at carefully by a person who knows the subject, either gets much better quite quickly, or gets much worse quite quickly".
I had known it was 'right' immediately on seeing it; he'd been unsure when he first saw it. I had bought it for US$1,200; I later traded it to a big dealer for 4 bottles worth a total of US$65,000. So it was very good indeed.  Cheesy
Best,
Joey

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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

David
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 09:32:11 pm »

Hi Joey,

I won't waste the forum's time on "interrogating" (I like this choice of word) a possible 1980s photo litho bottle, which won't have value to anyone but me or someone that likes to kid with a friend.

She was willing to write and sign a letter to provide information regarding the bottles I bought from her. And I checked her husband's name on the side to confirm the possible truth. Superficially, it checks out. I might dig in some more if her others turn out to be better.

That is very true, hopefully I have a bottle or two that gets better  Grin

David
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 04:26:14 am »

Well, good luck, and happy hunting.
Joey
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David
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 11:20:27 am »

Thank you,
David
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