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Tourist Bottle?

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Author Topic: Tourist Bottle?  (Read 1385 times)
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David
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« on: October 30, 2014, 06:50:07 pm »

Please note if you see the following notes on my posting. It means that those were purchased prior to joining this forum and starting to learn about this area. I will take one person's advice and only post (after 12/1/2014) those that I think are tourist/student bottle.

Please note: These were purchased prior to my joining this forum. All were bought prior to me taking a more serious view of learning about this area. So, please give constructive comments regarding, why this is a tourist/student bottle (if it is), and within this category, is it a good piece or not.
Hi everyone,

I bought a bunch of tourist bottles and think this is one of the nicer ones. Will you please take a look and give me an idea of the age, is it really hand painted, are the calligraphy written (or photo lithoed) and an idea of it's worth?

I really like the cursive calligraphy, even though I can't understand 1/2 of it with a 10x loupe.

Can you tell if it is crystal or glass? It came with a green top, but broke apart when I pull it. The "cork" looks like a dried out rubber foam.

The bottle is ~ 66mm high and 80mm wide.

Without looking at the text below, just looking at photo. When will you date it?






The front side calligraphy (middle column) seem to contain the words Jia Zi Year made. But Zi is written cursive and I am not sure. If correct, then is 1924 or 1984.

The back side calligraphy (2nd to last column) seems to contain the word Ding Mao year summer written.
If correct, then is 1927 or 1987.

Is it reasonable to have different years? One for made and one for written?

Thank you,
David


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« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 12:33:06 pm by David » Report Spam   Logged

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David
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 07:00:27 pm »

Here are 2 more photo of the areas in questions:



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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 07:04:04 pm »

Dear David,
     The definition is not good enough to even focus on.
Best,
 Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Steven
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 07:19:03 pm »

Hi David,

I can tell you that was a bad purchase, It is not even a inside painted bottle, its a inside printed bottle, if you look closer, you should see there is no detail strokes of the painting, the they are very flat looking, on the calligraphy side, you should notice the blurriness  on the strokes, and the strokes is kinda stretched on the edge of the bottle.


There is a quite few of the posts talking about the printed bottles, I will see if I can find some for you.

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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 07:22:30 pm »

Ok, I will give you a example here.

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2405.0.html

Look the 1st and 4th bottle on that post, they look identical with each other, the only difference is the color, that is because the outlines was printed, then the colors was filled in later on.

I wish this helps.

Steven
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 09:08:13 pm »

Hi Joey,

I will try to take better photos the next time.

Hi Steven,

Thank you for the example, I read the thread on photo litho, glued sheet etc... too late (already made the bulk of my purchase of my budget). I will check the rest of my tourist bottles carefully, before I put it online.  Sad the trend of this treasure hunt is certainly not very good.

Out of curiosity, is it even possible for an artist to write cursive inside a bottle?

Or to make a brush painting of a black horse?

 Huh Now I have a big problem!

My desk is going to be filled of fake bottles to remind me to be careful, that I will have no place left to work on!  Grin

David
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 10:10:45 pm »

Hi Dave,

As many members have mentioned here before, we all been there, that is a learning curve , nobody can buy a masterpiece at the first shot.

If you have a chance to visit my family, there are quite a lot bottles sitting in the corner of my shelf, those are all the mistakes I made. and I think that is a fun part of the collecting as well. Just like every kids will make mistakes when they grow up, we learn from those mistakes.

Nowdays, the inside painting artists can paint anything in the bottles, At meantime, I think what you need to do first is try to see more good bottles and masterpieces, and getting able to tell what is good quality and top quality, in another word" train you eyes", then start to buy the bottles you like with your budget. I believe with your $100 budget, you can find some very decent inside painting bottles.

Steven
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 10:42:10 pm »

Thanks for cheering me up.

I still have not given up hope yet!  Smiley

I have 2 glass overlay, 1 or 2 that I think is hand painted before I read the thread on litho and 3-4 inside painted that I bought after I read the thread on litho print, and 2 enamel on metal (but I think these will fall into the eye sore group). I am going to check them carefully first to weed out the litho ones, before I submit again. And I still need to practice taking pictures.

And after that, I still have a bunch of possible bottles and containers.

Then I will think and decide whether to continue with this or not.

David
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 10:46:11 pm »

Almost forgot to mention, I have already completed my round of test purchase. So, will refrain from buying more until I finish reading the whole site, submitted all the items that are not obvious fakes and have a chance to think about it.

David
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 11:03:35 pm »

the calligraphy side, you should notice the blurriness  on the strokes, and the strokes is kinda stretched on the edge of the bottle.



David,

The calligraphy is not applied with a brush.. All of that script is simply photo enhanced onto the inside of the bottle..  Then imagine being able to apply that same black line/mark used for those characters , except in the shape of a lady, flower etc, then someone simply comes in and splashes paint within the lines.. Like a coloring book..
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 11:29:37 pm »

Hi George,

Thanks, I was afraid of that after I read the thread.

How I wish I read that thread and joined this forum earlier... Etsy should put up a banner whenever people search snuff bottle "Please beware of litho print

I recall one of the thread mention that there are 2 famous artist (a retired guy and a younger lady?) that does block calligraphy. Have you seen any one that does small or large cursive calligraphy inside bottles by hand? I always like the way they look, even though I can barely read half or less of what is written.

David
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 11:36:37 pm »

I am not as good with calligraphy David...

Maybe have a look at this chart that Richy shared, and pick out one of the styles that best fits the "block" type calligraphy that you like.. Or maybe there is another style not on the chart that is more block shaped that someone else can share about..

Then maybe can ID the artists your curious about..  

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1769.msg22135.html#msg22135
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2014, 12:02:00 am »

Hi George,

Thank you for the link.

The style I like is Little Caoshu but the experienced writer will also connects all the character in a single line. I don't own any nor can judge good or bad calligraphy, but I just love the way this style flows. The reason why I bought this one.

Even though it is a fake, I still like it. The writing that they took it from is wonderful.  Cheesy When you can't afford a real masterpiece calligraphy, a litho bottle of one sure beats a photo or fake scroll.

David
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2014, 12:38:31 am »

I have an idea of the style your thinking of..

Steven.. If you read this, what was the name of the artist who painted the bottle I sent you last year with the bamboo and people scene on one side, and calligraphy on the reverse.. ? It was one from a group of about eight bottles..

I recall that calligraphy being in the style as David is asking.. Long, flowing, and running together..

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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2014, 12:44:28 am »

Hi Dave,

You still can find some very decent calligraphy bottles done by well recognized artists around $100-200 range on ebay, they are not from the top artists, but those bottles are very collectible.
The hammer price is getting higher every year as I can tell.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Glass-Hand-Inside-drawing-Calligraphy-lt-Xin-jing-gt-Snuff-Bottle-/390902035141?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item5b0393b2c5&nma=true&si=BfvadTQXYQ2yGiorFiPJHhonIbE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Here is a sold one a while back, you can try to send us the message before you want to go for some specific bottles you like, I will be happy to give my 2 cents on the price range and the quality of the bottles.

Steven
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2014, 12:51:35 am »

I have an idea of the style your thinking of..

Steven.. If you read this, what was the name of the artist who painted the bottle I sent you last year with the bamboo and people scene on one side, and calligraphy on the reverse.. ? It was one from a group of about eight bottles..

I recall that calligraphy being in the style as David is asking.. Long, flowing, and running together..



Hi George,

I believe that you are referring this bottle, its from Wang Guanyu a well known artist,  that was his early bottle, not perfectly done, But I do like the calligraphy side of the bottle.

Steven


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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2014, 01:38:58 am »

Yes, that is the one Steven.. Just wanted to share the calligraphy with David, but probably not what he is thinking of.. As the characters are not connected in a single line.. I thought the characters ran much closer together..

Thank you !
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 01:50:58 am »

Hi Steven and George,

Thank you for taking the time to find the link and bottles, the link is private (it is not the style, but close enough on a bottle at this price). Is the listing bottle as good as that one? I will take you up on your offer for help if I buy again.

But, I need to first evaluate the results of this round of test purchases (My mom once said to do test purchases in a few areas of interest. It will show where I have a better feel and luck.) and I want to read all the threads on this site first. Before deciding on what to do next.

For some odd reason, I completely forgot snuff bottles... I was test buying jade when I stumbled upon that stone bottle. And so I finished up the jade test, and just 2 days ago I finished up buying the snuff bottle test.

Warm Regards,
David
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2014, 01:59:22 am »

Hi George and Steve,

Really appreciate it, it is different. But it is good enough for me and my per item budget. Thank you.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is impossible to do in a bottle. I don't think an interior paint brush can hold enough ink to make a line of word. And the space constraint at the neck, will most likely force them to write too slow for the words to have the "flying" feeling.

Warm Regards,
David
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2014, 10:50:16 am »

Hi David,

Take a look at the video, you will know the brush can held enough ink, might not be enough for the whole line of the words, but It really doesn't matter to me, the artist can resume the stop point whenever the ink is out.



Steven
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