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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 12:56:50 pm
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A busy little bottle.

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seadancer1
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« on: October 23, 2014, 06:33:29 pm »

I bought this bottle a few weeks ago from an auction  in Sydney. As you can see there is a lot going on here....monks (?) on donkies heading towards a building with a flag....people walking, crossing a bridge....mountains, and bamboo groves ect. There is some faint beige colour on some of the scenery, otherwise it is black and white. Unfortunately the bottle is unsigned. It measures app. 65mm high.....the stopper is not original. I am wondering if it could be by Suo Zhenhai, as it seems similar to the other one that I have. Also I would love to know what the story is that is portrayed on the bottle. Thanks guys.
Cheers, Brenda


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seadancer1
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 06:39:45 pm »

The other side


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seadancer1
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 06:41:56 pm »

The two sides.


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seadancer1
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 06:43:46 pm »

Base....which is flat......and neck.


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Pat - 查尚杰
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Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 07:53:47 pm »

Brenda

Great bottle and very well painted.  My first reaction is that it has too much detail and is not abstract enough to be Suo Zhenhai.  It  reminds me more of Li Kechang.
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Pat
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Wattana
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 08:28:59 pm »

Hi Brenda,

Attractive bottle - congratulations! I love the restrained use of colour and the 'wrap-around' landscape scene (no breaks).

But I agree with Pat, the style of painting is not like Suo Zhenhai's work, although there is some similarity in the way the mules are painted.

Tom
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 08:43:33 pm by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 08:31:54 pm »

Dear Brenda,
     I agree with Pat and Tom, that this is probably NOT by Suo Zhenhai, but IS very well painted. I saw no inscription. Is there one? The net curtain is distracting. Any way to photograph it clearer?
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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George
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 08:40:11 pm »

Look at the third pic down for Geoff's Kangxi Southern Inspection Tour themed bottle..

Pretty sure yours is also of this same theme.. At least the one side crossing the bridge..

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1989.0.html



I am still searching for the other side, although with no breaks in the painting from front to back, not so sure the other side is not also from this theme.. I am just not seeing it...

Nice bottle !
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 09:45:27 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

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richy88
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 09:41:14 pm »

Hi Brenda

The theme reminds me of The Eighteen Scholars, a popular theme in Chinese art.

The Eighteen Scholars going to Ying Zhou "十八学士登瀛洲” depicts the scholars from the Tang Dynasty being invited by Emperor Tang Taizong (唐太宗) to be his court officials.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard
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Steven
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 09:59:39 pm »

I agree with Richard, it should be "The Eighteen Scholars ascend Ying Zhou".

This nice bottle should be a 1920-1950 shandong bottle, the theme is a traditional theme by shandong school, I have seen the same theme by Bi rongjiu and Li kechang. but I don't think the bottle was from either of them.

attached please find one by Li kechang.

Steven


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George
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 10:58:29 pm »

I agree with Richard, it should be "The Eighteen Scholars ascend Ying Zhou".



Ah.. I can see it now...  Thank you both, Richy and Steven !
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 11:25:50 pm »

Brenda,

Can't help on the artist, but here is another example of the theme.  Charll

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1646.0.html
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:22:30 am by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

seadancer1
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2014, 12:08:15 am »

Thanks guys for your comments.......I will try to get some better pics......Joey there is no writing or signature. Undecided
Cheers,Brenda
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seadancer1
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2014, 12:17:13 am »

Here is an auction catalogue pic.....dont think its much better though. I will take some more shortly
Cheers, Brenda


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« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 12:21:27 am by seadancer1 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2014, 03:43:21 am »

Dear George, Steven,
thank you for letting me know about this theme, I confess that I have never heard it before.
Dear Charll, I did a search on Gotheborg which has an archive of thousands of porcelain and I have found none. It must be a rare theme.
Dear Brenda, a nice bottle, this is the type of IP bottles that I like.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2014, 09:10:03 am »

Hi Giovanni,

That  theme is relatively rare, but you can still find some in porcelain. 

Sometimes the scholars are not ridding donkey, climbing the mountains, they were playing chess , sometimes they were discussing.

Bellow is what I found on the internet:

This title appears in full only in Faming Qinpu (1539). Three other handbooks, dated 1525, 1539 and 1596, include a melody with the title Yingzhou.4 All seem melodically related, though the latter two are quite distant. All but 1525 have lyrics, though they are quite different. Only 1525 has an explanatory preface.5
After Li Yuan established the Tang dynasty he made his son Li Shimin Prince of Qin as well as appointing him Chief Guardian of the Emperor. In this capacity (i.e., before he became the Tang dynasty Taizong emperor in 626), in order to promote good government after the unrest accompanying the change of dynasty, Li Shimin brought together 18 scholars to advise the government. He appointed Du Ruhui (Wiki) to be first among them.

During the reign of the Tang Xuanzong emperor (r. 713 - 756) this group was formally organized as the Hanlin Academy (Wiki). Joining the academy became known as called "ascending Yingzhou", after a fabled island of immortals in the Eastern Sea.

Depictions of 18 scholars in an elegant gathering came to be a motif in Chinese painting (sometimes in combination with the Four Arts).6 And because in classical Chinese pronunciation the word for crane (in Mandarin "ho") is pronounced the same as the word for study (xue), in art there is also the motif of 18 cranes, to represent the 18 scholars.7


Also you can find a 18 scholars theme in porcelain , and one inside painting by Liu shouben.

Steven


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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2014, 09:33:21 am »

Hi Steven,

Thanks for all the background information on the story of the 18 scholars. Great post!

Tom
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2014, 09:54:34 am »

Dear Steven,
    I agree with Tom, a wonderful post.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2014, 02:19:52 pm »

Excellent post Steven !
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2014, 03:56:05 pm »

Thank you dear Steven, very interesting. Since you mentioned the 18 cranes I think you remember this my bottle with 18 deer, which meaning is not yet explained for sure, because usually there are wasp and not a spider:
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1186.msg11164.html#msg11164
Kind regards
Giovanni
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