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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 10, 2018, 07:10:00 pm
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Can someone confirm this Zhang Tieshan painted

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Author Topic: Can someone confirm this Zhang Tieshan painted  (Read 558 times)
George
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« on: September 04, 2014, 10:00:51 pm »

Bought this as a buy it now just after it was listed, and pretty sure these Shang Dynasty bronze vessels are painted by Zhang Tieshan, but not able to match up a signature..

Can someone please confirm for me.. ?



* master of new studio5.jpg (139.04 KB, 463x535 - viewed 4 times.)

* master of new studio4.jpg (147.37 KB, 471x531 - viewed 11 times.)

* master of new studio3.jpg (87.88 KB, 196x530 - viewed 7 times.)

* master of new studio2.jpg (125.03 KB, 374x495 - viewed 5 times.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 12:42:00 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

Steven
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 11:07:11 pm »

Hi George,

I don't know how much you paid for the bottle, its a very nice painted bottle, I believe its from a very mature artist, Altho the artist is not Zhang Tieshan.

Zhang Tieshan is very famous for this motif, but this motif has been copied a lot.

The artist signed on the bottle is 张宇 zhang Yu whom I believe is an artist from He Bei.

I will share with you,If I find any more info about the artist.

Steven
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George
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 12:10:12 am »

Thank you Steven, and yes.. Anything further you find, please do let me know..

After searching Peter's DB, a couple of books, Bill's site, He Bei IP site, and Google have not shown any results for him..

Yes, I was going solely off the motif, leading me to think it Zhang Tieshan..

Regardless, when I saw it, I thought it an extra nice painted bottle, and easily worth 85.00...

Surprising that can not fine anything about this artist who is obviously very talented !

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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 12:45:54 am »

Hi George,

I could be wrong at first place, the artist could be 振宇 Zhen yu, Pan Jiafang, Dave have sold lots of his bottles before, but I have not seen this motif.

张 and 振 are very close looking especially when it written in complicated script, attached you can find zhen yu's signature and seal, it looks identical with your bottle.

But I still not 100% positive, even the calligraphy is very very close to Zhen yu's.

Steven


 


* zy2.jpg (84.61 KB, 653x851 - viewed 23 times.)
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George
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 01:03:36 am »

I think you nailed it Steven !

Identical also to a Pan Jaifang (pen name Zhen Yu) bottle of Charll's
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1208.0.html

I also found Pan Jai Fang within Jill's Autumn 2011 catalogue..  The bottles shown within the catalogue were very expensive  !

It mentions that Pan Jai Fang is the owner of Lu yun house... Anyone know what the Lu yun house is ?

Your the best Steven, thank you !
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 01:39:55 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 01:37:06 am »

Steven, can you make out the date on mine ?
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richy88
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 01:40:24 am »

Hi Steven

I think the bottle is signed Zhang Yu (张宇)  and not Zhen Yu (振宇).

The bottle is undated.

Regards.


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 02:16:01 am »

Dear all,

I agreed with Richard that it reads Zhang Yu.

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 10:46:37 pm »

Dear George,

I have to agree with Richard and YT, the signature is Zhang Yu.Sad, I have been searching the artist, can't find any info, maybe Mike can give some insight, I am pretty sure the artist is from Heng shui.

Also even its signed Zhang Yu, I still think the artist has some connection with Pan Jiafang, the calligraphy is very similar, when Joey visited me with some of his bottles, I handled a bottle from Pan Jiafang's wife, the calligraphy is also identical with Zhen Yu's, I even thought its could be painted by his wife but signed by husband..Smiley


Steven
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2014, 11:38:59 pm »

Hi All

I  would   agree  that  it's   Zhang Yu  not  Zhen Yu = Pan Jiafang ( but  I defer to   Richard , YT and Steven  on  correctly  reading   characters)

Yes   Zhen yu's  best bottles  these  days  are  very expensive.  On the  other hand David  Osborne   usually asks for  very reasonable  prices  for the   Zhen Yu  bottles  he bought in the  mid -2000s

I'm  100%  certain  it's not  Zhang Tieshan,  although   Shang Dynasty  bronzes  are   one  of  ZTS's  signature   themes.  The quality of the  painting  is far below  ZTS's  super-high standard , also  ZTS's  bottles  now  sell  for   US$ tens  of  thousands

(Rumor has it  that  ZTS  has recently been  buying  back  all  his previous  bottles  that were  undersold - same  for  Zhang Guanqing -  but again   that's  just  hearsay )

BTW :  it's  not  just   ZTS who paints   these  Shang Dynasty  bronzes . Lou Jiawen  also  paints them  (and  also to a  very high  standard)  , and  I'm pretty   sure I have  seen   a  few  other  artists  paint them as well.

I  also cannot   find "Zhang  Yu"  anywhere  in my   latest  DB,  nor  anywhere  else

The absence  of a  date   leads me  to suspect this  is  a  student  artist -  probably Ji  School,  also though it   could  be  Qin SChool, since  I  hear the  ZTS  has  started  teaching younger  artists  from scratch,  which   could  explain the  Shang Dynasty  bronzes ( and the    low  price )

On the other hand, the  bottle  shape  looks  more like  1970's   style, so I  wonder if  it was a  high  class  "tourist" bottle  than  somehow found its  way  to  the  USA, and then   finally to  e-bay

The  wife  of  Pan Jiafang  is Li Zhen  =  Li Haizhen. Seems she  paints  flowers and  birds.

Cheers

Peter

PS:  Lu Yun House would  mean   the  "Lu Yun Studio " .  The  only reference  to this studio    is  what I found in Jill's catalog Autumn 2011.

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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 12:44:30 am »

Hi All

For your information, Wang Xisan has painted a series of these ancient art pieces before too.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 02:40:27 am »

Dear George,

I have to agree with Richard and YT, the signature is Zhang Yu.Sad, I have been searching the artist, can't find any info, maybe Mike can give some insight, I am pretty sure the artist is from Heng shui.

Also even its signed Zhang Yu, I still think the artist has some connection with Pan Jiafang, the calligraphy is very similar, when Joey visited me with some of his bottles, I handled a bottle from Pan Jiafang's wife, the calligraphy is also identical with Zhen Yu's, I even thought its could be painted by his wife but signed by husband..Smiley


Steven

Even after Richard, and YT believed the signature to be Zhang Yu, I was still leaning towards it being Zhen Yu because of the similarities in calligraphy.. But now will assign the signature to Zhen Yu..

Due to the fact that it was obviously painted by an extra skilled artist, yet can not find any info about Zhang Yu, I like your thought Steven about there being a connected in some way to Pan Jiafang.. It just makes sense..

Sent both Bill, and David emails asking for help.. Now I need to email again and see if either can make the connection between Zhang Yu, and Pan Jiafang..

As for it being a possible 70's paintings, since Pan Jiafang was born 1978..

Apparently his Grandfather who I do not know the name was also an artist

Thank you all very much for the help... !
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:19:28 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2014, 03:33:55 am »

Hi George/Peter

Frankly speaking, I do not know what you are referring to and how it is related to this bottle?  Huh

Regards.


Richard



With Stevens thought, and I agree, that there may well be a connection between the signature ( art name ? ) Zhang Yu, and Pan Jiafang, whom I am in agreement with Steven may have painted this bottle..

I was simply commenting, for the purpose that there may be a clue in knowing that the Grandfather was also an artist .. 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:20:31 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 04:17:54 am »

Oh my....

I stand corrected, and my apologies Richy, and thank you..

I am going to edit those posts of mine, and also remove your last posts only so there is no further confusion....

Do you happen to know the Grandfathers name ?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:29:29 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 04:32:46 am »

Hi George

No, unfortunately.

While I may have embarrassed you by pointing out the mistake, I think it is not a very nice thing to delete a member's posting without seeking his consent. It's seems that it is an abuse of the moderator's power, don't you think so?

Regards.


Richard
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:43:16 am by richy88 » Report Spam   Logged

Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2014, 04:42:35 am »

George,

The bottle is by Zhang Yu. He also signs off as ' Master of the Fine Craft Studio ' , read in
Chinese as 【 精艺轩主人 】. Maybe Peter can confirm if Zhang Yu's also carries the Chinese title ?

Inn Bok
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2014, 04:49:31 am »

Hi George

No, unfortunately.

While I may have embarrassed you by pointing out the mistake, I think it is not a very nice thing to delete a member's posting without seeking his consent. It's seems that it is an abuse of the moderator's power, don't you think so?

Regards.


Richard


It is not something I do..  I did this time, only for the purpose of not having the confusion, not because of feeling any kind of embarrassment  .. I could care less if I make a mistake and am corrected on it.. Does not bother me in the slightest..  My apologies, and will never touch any of your posts in the future..

I think if you know me even a little, you would know that I do not abuse administrative powers..

Sorry you thought so..

« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 05:03:02 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2014, 04:56:56 am »

George,

The bottle is by Zhang Yu. He also signs off as ' Master of the Fine Craft Studio ' , read in
Chinese as 【 精艺轩主人 】. Maybe Peter can confirm if Zhang Yu's also carries the Chinese title ?

Inn Bok

Well that is sure interesting.. Would be nice to know which fine craft studio/school is being referenced..

Thank you for that Inn Bok...

So far, none of us have been able to find anything about an artist named Zhang Yu.. 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 05:18:12 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2014, 07:22:25 am »

Hi  George, all

I  tried  a   Chinese   character   search  in   my   DB   for  精艺轩主人   but   drew a  total   blank, sorry

The  主人   comes  up many times,  because  it's a  typical moniker for  the  "one  who owns a   studio"   but  not the  complete   5  character   name ( and I have   dutifully   cross-referenced  these  "studio names"  in the  more recent   versions  of  my  DB )

And,  I must  very  frankly  say  - that  IMHO  it's  only  an  average -painted   Shang  Dynasty  bronze.
 Not  by    any way a  major  artist

If  you   do a  check  on the  best  of  ZTS   (and   also   Lou  Jiawen)  for    bronzes in my  BD   you  will see   works  that  are  several  quantum levels  higher standard  and  in much  finer detail

But  the bottle  shape   still intrigues  me  :  it   really  is  very  old -fashioned

That may be the   the   real  clue....  ?

Something painted  as a  top-class tourist bottle  in the  late  1970s / early  1980s ?
 You just  don't  see that  kind  of bottle  any  more  among  serious  artists

That would   also  explain the  "non-existent"   name  in the   annals  ...

Just my 2  cents  worth  for now

Cheers

Peter

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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2014, 09:41:02 am »

Dear Peter,

I beg to differ for this one being a 70-80s bottle, according the calligraphy and painting style, and the motif, the bottle should be painted after 90s or even later..

During the 70s and 80s, the young artists basically followed the old master's style, this kind of very characteristic calligraphy style only appeared and be popular after 90s. I will vote the bottle is no more than 10 years old.

Steven
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