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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 08:20:27 am
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Leaf-shaped porcelain bottle

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YT
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« on: August 28, 2014, 10:44:30 pm »

Dear all,

Interesting bottle in ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311059159923?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Is the quality ok?

Cheers,
YT
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 11:08:15 pm »

Dear YT,
     I don't like it, and think it is a modern bottle.
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

YT
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 11:26:15 pm »

Thanks Joey Wink. Ok I won't bid for it.

Cheers,
YT
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Wattana
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 12:02:17 am »

Hi YT,

I would agree with Joey - this looks like a modern bottle to me.

Tom
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YT
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 12:05:55 am »

Thanks Tom
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 01:51:56 am »

Dear YT, Joey and Tom,
the bottle is not new to me, pay attention at the wear and the small damages. All them looks very natural and in the right places. The foot too is clearly not new for three reasons. Other factor is the type of enamels, the bottle surely has some age but, besides being not appealing to me, the price is high in my opinion. 
Strictly speaking, it is not correct to call this type of decoration "famille verte". If it has even a single spot of pink, then it falls into "famille rose" group.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Wattana
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 02:37:12 am »

Dear Giovanni,

You are far more expert on porcelain than I, so it is interesting to read your comments. My opinion about the dating is based less on experience of porcelain than on experience of snuff bottles. I have never seen a bottle like this in 40 years of collecting. This is the reason I believe it is modern. 

But I agree that this bottle should not be described as 'famille verte' for the reasons you say.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 02:50:12 am »

Dear Giovanni,

Appreciate your thoughts and expertise. This bottle got my interest because of 2 other interesting bottles this seller put up.
I have not seen a moulded porcelain in this design before. 

Thank you.

YT
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 05:20:39 am »

Dear Joey, YT, Tom,
I have sent you a private message.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 06:02:14 am »

Dear All,
    I have not seen this exact form before, but have seen similar examples. I don't like them, since the neck wrecks the form, and in this example I also don't like the crude decoration. I realise now that it is genuine in that it is not modern, but still not desirable, since the only thing it has going for it IS its age. Thank you Giovanni, for your incisive analysis.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2014, 06:07:30 am »

Giovanni, Joey and YT,

Please see my reply by PM.

Tom
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 12:40:22 pm »


Strictly speaking, it is not correct to call this type of decoration "famille verte". If it has even a single spot of pink, then it falls into "famille rose" group.



I will remember that Giovanni..

Considering that I have never seen a bottle like this one that is presently on eBay before, it is interesting that yet another identical bottle is up for auction at Gorrings mid Sept..
http://www.gorringes.co.uk/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=LSEPT14++552+&t=7401067&

« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 01:02:07 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2014, 03:18:10 pm »

It certainly isn't pleasing to the eye and is totally unbalanced. It may not be new but I doubt it has much age to it. Others may disagree with my analyses! I'm afraid I wouldn't want in my collection at any price. Regards Jason.
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2014, 03:25:12 pm »

Dear Giovanni,
     Could this not be a modern bottle after all? Two for sale at the same time, after none of us has seen the exact bottle before, is suspicious.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2014, 11:30:05 pm »

All,

The seller of this bottle is an antique dealer located in the US, and primarily deals in oriental.  Most, if not all, the snuff bottles are reported be out of a German collection which the seller has been listing on ebay over the last few years.  Some of the bottles being sold are great examples in my opinion, many are 'middle of the road' type bottles, and some are more contemporary bottles being pre-1970. Contemporary in this case meaning 1900 through the 1960's.

I have purchased more than a few selected bottles from this seller over the years and have been very pleased with the results.  Most of the bottles are reported to be 19th century which is not necessarily always the case.  I do agree with Giovanni that the present bottle likely has some age either being very late 19th or early 20th century from what I can tell from the photos.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2014, 08:53:18 am »

Hi All,

Very interesting to read everyone's inputs on this bottle! There seem to be a few contradicting opinions:

1. it has some age (possibly turn of the century - 19th, that is)

2. some of us have never seen one like it before in 40 years of collecting, yet another almost identical bottle appears for sale in the same week (I agree with Joey, that does raise some suspicion of age) 

Tom
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2014, 03:06:39 pm »

Dear Tom,
in 68 years of life I have learned not to be surprised by coincidences Grin
Giovanni
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2014, 04:07:19 pm »

    I must admit that once (in 1988), I saw two identical white nephrite jade bottles, and bought one. I would have bought both, but a friend, Alice Smith from FLA, wanted one. They each cost US$500, but are actually Kangxi Imperial Palace Workshops, and almost floaters (yup, Jade floaters). I know, because the National Palace Museum in Taipei has a box with a number of fitted trays, each with 10 of them.
   But this bottle is quite crude, and if genuine, why did one surface, much less two?
Joey
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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2014, 05:52:27 pm »

Ya know, I am not entirely sure why some show up as pairs..

There are a great deal of very modern paired bottles showing up on eBay, and also auction houses..

Not sure about Imperial pieces, but have seen 19th century pairs show up that look like they are true to the period and meant to be a pair..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 05:55:33 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

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