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March 28, 2024, 09:27:34 am
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Two Birds in the Bush - Guyue Xuan Enamel on Glass Bottle

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Author Topic: Two Birds in the Bush - Guyue Xuan Enamel on Glass Bottle  (Read 796 times)
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kjennings12
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« on: August 24, 2014, 05:54:25 pm »

I recently acquired this enamel on glass bottle. The glass has flaws and pitting, the base is slightly concave. The bottle is 4.7 cm high. I guess the palette would be considered famille verte, the enamels are thin as can be seen in the photos. I have found a few Qianlong bottles with similar thin enamels, but nothing truly compelling. Dating the bottle is difficult for me, right now I fluctuate between late Qing and early Qing, quite a spread... What do y'all think?

Keith


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YT
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 10:09:30 pm »

Dear Keith,

Personally I would date it to 20th Century and not Qing.

Hope you don't mind my opinion.

Cheers,
YT
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Steven
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 10:22:16 pm »

Hi Keith,

This bottle really confused me, the bottle size and wear on the bottle all point to be an old bottle, but the enamel color, painting style all point to an newer bottle.

The patina looks fine, but the quality of the painting and enamel can't be 19th, I will agree with YT, it could be a early 20th bottle or a little bit later, let us say 70s, the painting style really looks like from shangdong school, the motif is one of favorite from shangdong school as well.

Its just my 2 cents, let us see what is other's comments.

Steven
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 12:56:40 am »

Dear Keith,
    I agree with YT and Steven.
Best,
 Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

kjennings12
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 05:58:39 am »

Hi Everyone,

So, it appears the bottle I posted is a 20th century piece. The shape, size, and glass had me fooled. The signs it was a later creation are the enamels and the painting style. The green enamel looked odd to me, but I convinced myself it was the same green and yellow enamel as on this Qianlong bottle Sotheby's sold as Imperial in 2013. Here are a couple of images I used to compare the green and yellow enamels. I still believe the bottle is older than the 1970's, if only because it was glued to a Republic wooden base with what appears to be Horsehide glue, an uncommon adhesive to be used in my lifetime.

Thanks for your opinions,
Keith


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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 04:19:52 pm »

Dear Keith,
    If someone was trying to fake a piece, they would try to get details right. And while horsehide glue might be rare in your lifetime, IN YOUR MILIEU; it is not necessarily so in China.
Best,
Joey





Hi Everyone,

So, it appears the bottle I posted is a 20th century piece. The shape, size, and glass had me fooled. The signs it was a later creation are the enamels and the painting style. The green enamel looked odd to me, but I convinced myself it was the same green and yellow enamel as on this Qianlong bottle Sotheby's sold as Imperial in 2013. Here are a couple of images I used to compare the green and yellow enamels. I still believe the bottle is older than the 1970's, if only because it was glued to a Republic wooden base with what appears to be Horsehide glue, an uncommon adhesive to be used in my lifetime.

Thanks for your opinions,
Keith
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 06:34:33 pm »

A couple of observations include the glass.. Which appears to be just a regular white glass, not opaque, or milk glass..

The recess around the throat as was designed 18th and 19th for the waxed string around the stopper to seal better to the bottle..

Also the excessive air bubbles as can be more readily seen at the top of the neck..

I like this bottle very much Keith..

Everyone who has commented, and helped with possible dating are by far better at dating this than I am, but my two cents leans towards Early 19th..

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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 12:56:35 am »

Keith,

To my eye the way the chrysanthemums are painted on the Sotheby's bottle look identical to yours.

But I hesitate to give an opinion on dating, as I know relatively little about enamelled glass, and can't comment on the accuracy of the Sotheby's claim.

Tom
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 04:11:15 pm »

Dear Tom and Keith,
     I would have an easier time doubting Sotheby's dating, than approving a similarly early date for this bottle.
Best,
 Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 09:20:55 pm »


     I would have an easier time doubting Sotheby's dating, than approving a similarly early date for this bottle.


Dear Joey,

A politician could not have phrased that better !   Wink

Tom
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Steven
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 01:06:16 am »

When I look the bottle over and over again, I do believe that bottle was not made to fake anything. And how modern  bottles made is totally difference with this one. It could be earlier than I thought. I will do some research, and get back to you all.

Steven
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 01:17:10 am »

Hi Steven,

Please take a close look at Keith's excellent close ups of the yellow chrysanthemum on both bottles. IMO they are painted by the same hand. I'd like to hear your opinion, as you have a better eye than me.

Tom
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 01:29:04 am »

Dear Tom,

The yellow chrysanthemum on the left side should be from keith' bottle if I was not wrong.Smiley

He was trying to compare his bottle with the one sold on Sotheby's (on right), The early bottle always have better painting on enameled glass bottle, since the cost is very high for enameled glass due to the temperature control skill was not matured.

Steven
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 01:39:30 am »

Hi Steven,

My mistake! I didn't realize the second set of images INCLUDED parts of Keith's bottle too.   Embarrassed

Tom
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