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DongJiang Bottle

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AntPeople
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« on: August 13, 2014, 08:45:55 am »

Hi All :

IMO, DongJiang bottle is quite nice. Its quite extensively painted and the character are well illustrated.



The price of the bottle are quite affordable at around USD180. Any comments ?

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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Steven
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 09:15:22 pm »

Hi Pin,

I thought someone would jump on to help you out.Smiley

This is a nice painted bottle , the price is a little bit much for my taste,  I would think $100 would be more in the line.

If you like modern IP, you should register to David's  mail list, he has some wonderful bottles sold almost every week, with $180.00 you can buy better bottle than that from David IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy collecting!

Steven
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 01:02:00 pm »

Hi

Dong Jiang  appears  in my  data  base  as a  lesser  artist  (the name  is  certainly a  pen name )   from the   1990's / early 2000's

Previously  collected  by  Pat

No  particular  collectible  value

Worth  max  US$50

Zero re-sale  value

Cheers

Peter
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 01:25:06 pm »

Pin,

I think a little more of this bottle than Peter.  It is actually quite well done and if you collect this subject matter or theme it  is a nice IPB.  Though the colors are somewhat subdued the painting detail appears to be very good.  Acquiring such a bottle here in the United States I would expect to pay $120 to $150 for such a bottle. 

Charll 
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 02:04:05 pm »

Hi  Pin, Charll

This  all  depends  on  how  one  collects

If one  collects  purely  for  what one  pleases  one,  then   sure -  US$100 -150  is a   fair  price

But  forget  about  re-sale  value

When I started  collecting   VMIPBs  I  set  myself a  limit  of  US$500  =  RMB 4,000  per  bottle  and  bought  over  100  bottles  within that  limit  (  some as  low  as  US$  150   and  some of  which  I  bought  at that price  I  still  love)

I  still collect  1:18  scale  model  cars   from  CMC- model cars  Germany.   They  cost  on average  US$ 300- 400   each  and every  model   is  a  museum-quality  miniature  (I'm  just  surprised  that  CMC  can  offer   such a  low  price   per  model ,  except that  they  manufacture  in China   where they  have  a  JV)

I love  my  model cars,  but they  currently  have  zero re-sale  value  and   will never  really  appreciate  in  value
until long  after  I  die.  So be it. I can love  them  while  I'm alive.

But  VMIPBs  is - at least  to me  -  something  different  !

  ( Or  are  they ? ! "Beauty   is in the  eye  of the  beholder" ) 

What  would  you   rather  do  with  your  money ? 

a) Buy  a    two-bit (but  attractive)  VMIPB  painted   10-15  years  ago  by a   student  artist   who has  long  since  given  up  painting  (and it  was  almost  certainly COPY-painting  , or else  a   "variations  on a  theme"    copy)

OR

b) Buy a  genuinely   creative  new   work of  art  by    an  artist  who one  day  will be  famous

Huh

I attach  a pic  of  a bottle  I  bought  in  Hengshui   a couple of  years  ago  for  only RMB 300  =  US$60 by a  artist  who  was  - even  in his   20's  -  able  to paint at the  same  level  and  with 95%   accuracy  as  the  Great  Sun Honglin  for  whose  original  works  I  pay minimum  US$ 2,500

So what does  one  buy  for ?

If  pure  pleasure, then of  course  just  go  for  what  pleases  one.  Never  buy an  original  painting.  Just  buy  a   spoofed  copy  of  a  super  famous  original.
After  all,  with the   copying  techniques  these  days   who  could  tell the  difference  between

a)  a  real Rembrandt

b)  a  photo-copy  Rembrandt    with  oil-texture   finish

c) a  fake  actual  oil-painted  copy  of a  Rembrandt  painted  in China

Huh

Just  asking... not  challenging ( well maybe  not  challenging)

Cheers

Peter

PS:  Pin -  save  your  money  for   something  much better



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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 08:08:33 pm »

Peter

I am in agreement with Pin Steven and Charll.  In the past this artist was discussed on the forum and received good comments from several oothers like Steven and Walter, and I think Joey as well.

You certainly seem to talk a lot about resale value.  Frankly for me that is not part of my collecting and it shouldn't always be unless you are it in for investment and personal gain. This is a nice bottle and you are wrong about its potential resale value. Charll is more in the ball park.  Please stop putting nicely painted bottles down just because they don't fit your collecting interest or genres.

And for everone's reference it is kind of hard to paint these kind of theme bottles different as they are intended to mimic classical paintings and illustrations.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 01:58:26 am by Pat » Report Spam   Logged

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Pat
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 03:16:49 pm »

Dear Pat,
   I agree with what you said, and I did make positive comments about it.
   I am not pushed about Human figure subjects, but it is very nicely painted.
 Today, I prefer landscapes, calligraphy, aquatic scenes, and (oddly!) Wei Jianchao Pandas!
Best,
 Shabbat Shalom,
 Joey


Peter

I am in agreement with Pin Steven and Charll.  In the past this artist was discussed on the forum and received good comments from several oothers like Steven and Walter, and I think Joey as well.

You certainly seem to talk a lot about resale value.  Frankly for me that is not part of my collecting and it shouldn't always be unless you are it in for investment and personal gain. This is a nice bottle and you are wrong about its potential resale value. Charll is more in the ball park.  Please stop putting nicely painted bottles down just because they don't fit your collecting interest or genres.

And for everone's reference it is kind of hard to paint these kind of theme bottles different as they are intended to mimic classical paintings and illustrations.
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 11:37:14 pm »

Dear Pin,

If this USD180 includes shipping to doorstep then I would buy. Singapore really don't have much choice. Dealers are not willing to bring in modern ip and sell so low.

Resale value of any bottles below USD1000 bought at market rate usually takes a long time to appreciate. Unless there are accidental gems that others overlooked. Roll Eyes

This is my personal views.


Dear Pat, I think Peter meant well in his way of telling us new collectors. Smiley

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 07:07:15 am »

Dear YT,
    Why don't Singapore (and other) collectors who want reasonably-priced genuine bottles go to David Osborne's Snuff Bottle Collectors' Club and to Guo Jie (Jill) in Beijing?
   David sends 'members' (one basically just has to contact him to be accepted) a few emails each week or two, with good quality illustrations of snuff bottles being offered that week, and one week in which to post one's highest offer.  After he has all the offers, he takes the second-highest offer, adds a dollar, and that is what the highest bidder pays for it. He charges US$10-20 as a rule to ship the bottle in a padded box and well packed, from his home base of Alberta, Canada. Prices are in US$.
   Guo Jie (Jill), is a Beijing based dealer in modern IPSBs along with her husband Li Hui, who was a student of Liu Shouben, but now finds antique snuff bottles all over the world and sells them in China. She puts out a catalogue at least once a year, but may be contacted directly.
   David has purchased from both, as have I and also Charll. I feel I can say that we can all vouch for both sources, as to their honesty.
And both David Osborne and Guo Jie, are safer than the Internet, in my opinion.
Best,
 Joey


Dear Pin,

If this USD180 includes shipping to doorstep then I would buy. Singapore really don't have much choice. Dealers are not willing to bring in modern ip and sell so low.

Resale value of any bottles below USD1000 bought at market rate usually takes a long time to appreciate. Unless there are accidental gems that others overlooked. Roll Eyes

This is my personal views.


Dear Pat, I think Peter meant well in his way of telling us new collectors. Smiley

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 11:11:39 am »

Hi  Joey, YT

I agree !

David  Osborne's   bottles    generally  sell for  between  US$ 50 - 500  ( usually  about  US$200)   but    all  his  bottles  are  guaranteed   genuine ( indeed  most come   with  a   little  certificate   signed  by  WXS !)

The  artists whose  bottles  he  sells  tend to  be  middle-  ranking  from the  early- mid   2000s but  occasionally there's   some  real  beauties  there  ( e.g  Suo Zhenhai  and  Pan Jiafang = Zhen Yu )

But then  again   the  most   that can be  said  of  Dong Jiang (  which  BTW  is  an  Art  Name  :  I  don't  know  who he  real  artist is )  except  that he  was  painting  in the   mid  - 1990s

Jill  deals  only  in   the  best  Very  Modern   bottles recently   painted  by  top    class    Ji , Qin  and  Lu  School  artists   in the   age  range   30  -  50 ( roughly  speaking)    That  means  that her  prices  start  at  US$1,000, and  may go as high  as  US$  2,000.  But  for  that  you  get    real  high  quality  bottles  with  guaranteed  provenance.  Also,  even though  her  prices  may seem  high to those  accustomed  to  buying  in the  US$100  -  200  range  on e-bay,  I  have   got  some  real  bargains  from Jill from time  to  time ,  often  at  lower  prices  than  if  I had  bought  direct  from   the  artists  concerned.

Anyway...

But  certainly,  buying  from David  and  Jill  is  100%  safe !

Cheers

Peter




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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2014, 12:56:01 pm »

Dear Peter,
    I agree, and I buy more from Guo Jie (Jill) To me she is Guo Jie; I can't picture her as a toddler running around in the park where the old people are doing taichi, and her parents calling her,"Jill! Jill!". Them calling her 'Guo Jie', I can easily picture... Wink .
   But I have bought some fine bottles from David as well.
Best,
   Joey
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2014, 06:56:11 pm »

Dear Joey,

In Chinese, 'Jie' can also mean elder sister. So now you can imagine someone else  Tongue

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 07:48:39 pm »

Hi    Joey,  YT  all

1. Re  the  Dong  Jiang  bottle   artist

    I can  only  half  read the   Chinese  name  on the  bottle  because  of the  lighting :

     Dong  = 董 (Same as  Dong Xue)

     Jiang  = 江   ?   =  river

     It's  most  likely  an  art  name ( Steven  - do you  agree ? )

     If  so   who  was / is the  real  artist ?

     Often  younger   artists   use  one  one or more  art names  in their  younger career  when they sign  on
     practice  bottles  or   bottles  which  they  don't  think  are their  best  work, but they need to  sell off to
     earn  some  ready  cash .


   2.  I attach a  pic  of  my wife  BingBing  together   with  Jill

       You can  try to   guess  who is  who !  ( Be  VERY  careful  ....  ! )
 
       BTW  :  The  "Jie"  in  Jill's  Chinese  name  is 洁 =  purity  ( not  姐  =  elder  sister)

Cheers

Peter


* BingBing and Jill.jpg (56.3 KB, 448x298 - viewed 8 times.)
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 08:43:22 pm »


       You can  try to   guess  who is  who !  ( Be  VERY  careful  ....  ! )
 


Peter,

Assuming your caption under the picture reads from left to right, it's a no-brainer..!!   Grin

Tom
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 09:34:52 pm »

Hi  Tom

Never  assume    anything  in China

Anyway

1.  of  course  I would  mention my  wife  first
2.  sometimes    things  are  written  backwards  in Chinese

 Wink

Cheers
Peter

PS:  The    question  is  :  who  looks   more like  my  wife  and  who  looks  more  like an  art dealer ?
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2014, 11:17:11 pm »

Hi Peter,

Don't forget that you already post your family picture somewhere on the forum which including your wife.:)And that is not in  a private discuss, do you still want your picture on?

Btw, the artist is 东江 east river, Yes, I agree its a artname, Tom's QingMing bottle is painted by same artist. he can do some serious painting. Most of his painting I have seen is figure painting with traditional motif. From the painting style, I guess that he is not a young artist anymore.

Steven

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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2014, 11:29:22 pm »


Btw, the artist is 东江 east river, Yes, I agree its a artname, Tom's QingMing bottle is painted by same artist.


Hi Steven,

You may be thinking of Giovanni's QingMing bottle. I do not have one with this subject......but I'm still looking for a nice one.

Tom
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2014, 01:26:13 am »

Yes Tom, My mistakes. Its Giovanni's bottle. Embarrassed
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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2014, 06:19:03 am »

    Maybe she is STILL the elder sister, if they have a younger baby!  Cheesy
Thanks for the Chinese lesson; I thought Jie was just 'sister' (as in 'Xiao Jie', literally 'little sister' [I thought], or Miss).
  If I'm imagining, I tend to imagine Jan Claude van Damme in his prime, or Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime....  Wink
Joey


Dear Joey,

In Chinese, 'Jie' can also mean elder sister. So now you can imagine someone else  Tongue

Cheers,
YT
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