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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 29, 2024, 01:42:21 am
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Amber (Mi La) Bottle

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Wattana
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2014, 10:38:47 am »


Hammer price (without the premium) was $6500 US, a little surprising to me.  Thought the bottle is old, has great color, it does have a few frits about the mouth for which I did not consider it in top grade condition. 
 

Charll,

I agree. I'm also surprised at the hammer price. It is definitely not a top quality amber bottle.

Tom
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2014, 10:45:27 am »

Quote
The 'mila' amber bottles can fetch even higher prices in collection auctions like the Bloch sales.

YT, yes you are correct.  But the Bloch bottles are generally consider to be some of the best examples in their respective material class.  Buyers are paying a premium for the provenance as well as the research background that accompanies each bottle.  The HGPY NY International Auction bottle has neither of the these last two attributes, and it's not in the best of condition.  But I can not say that the material in the bottle is not worth $6500 if it were to be re-manufacturer into jewelry, beads, etc., which is done on occasions.  Such re-manufacturing has been reported to have been done particularly with gem quality jade bottles.   

Charll     
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

YT
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2014, 05:42:40 pm »

Thanks Charll Smiley, I will take more notice on their provenance n literature.

Cheers,
YT
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2014, 06:47:28 pm »

Guys,
   I tried the 'taste test' on my Baltic Amber bottle (I will ask friends who are visiting, to photograph the bottles so I can post them). The Amber bottle basically had no taste. From the post, I understand that is a good thing, since fake amber (ie., plastic) has a nasty flavour, according to the post.
Best,
 Joey

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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2014, 10:30:44 pm »

The 'taste test' is a new one for me. And I guess there would be no taste with real amber. But I am not convinced that all plastics have a distinctive flavour. We have bowls and spoons at home made of plastic, and there is absolutely no smell or taste to them.

Maybe they are amber...........  Grin

Tom
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2014, 04:40:10 am »

Dear Tom,

Lol that's a good one. There should be no taste once polymers are fully cured. I like using the burning test where I use a lighter. Plastic will emit a foul smell when near the fire for only a split second.

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2014, 04:49:23 am »

Dear YT,

Trial by fire?
You would need to have some nerve to do that test on a $6,500 bottle!  Wink

Tom
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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2014, 05:29:11 am »

Dear Tom,

If it is polymer, the 6,500 will also be worthless.  Tongue
Amber is fire retardant especially against split second heat. Grin

Cheers,
YT
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WWW
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2014, 05:31:34 am »

YT :

The test also says that real amber or mila will emit some kind of fragrance when burned.

Let's us know that smell when you happen to burn a real amber bottle.....hahahaha

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2014, 08:52:52 am »

Dear Tom,
 You are right. I have some plastic Chinese spoons for kids to use, instead of the porcelain ones we use for Chinese food (I have a few drawers with Chinese dishes, bowls, spoons, chopsticks, etc.), and they have no taste negative or otherwise.
  but I'm NOT trying any 'burning test' on my Amber bottle!  Grin
Joey


The 'taste test' is a new one for me. And I guess there would be no taste with real amber. But I am not convinced that all plastics have a distinctive flavour. We have bowls and spoons at home made of plastic, and there is absolutely no smell or taste to them.

Maybe they are amber...........  Grin

Tom
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2014, 02:22:31 pm »

Dear Joey, Tom, all,
the “taste test” is mentioned in many sites discussing how to differentiate amber from plastic. I didn’t report it when I discuss a bottle of mine because I did try it but found it a not valid test. It is just more one of the various homemade tests, like burning, smelling, etc. but my conclusion is that the only valid tests that can be made at home are the acetone test and, partially, the UV test.
My bottle did pass the acetone test and not passed the UV test, but this last one is not always effective.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2014, 07:14:31 am »

Dear Giovanni,

My Baltic and other ambers all pass the acetone test as with my plastic pen caps and transparent name card holders.  Tongue

As for the uv test, still waiting for my colleague to return me my laser pointer.(3in1 with uv)

The heat test still works best for me.  Grin

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2014, 02:19:40 pm »

Dear YT,
indeed, I was saying that I had some doubt one the acetone test too, but was not sure that some plastic can stand it. You are confirming my doubt. Very bad then, it seems that there is no a sure simple test.
Giovanni
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2014, 03:04:03 pm »

Dear Giovanni,
    We go back to provenance. If the bottle was documented in a collection from before 1970, 9 times (at least) out of ten, it's real amber. I don't remember fake amber before the mid-1980s.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2014, 07:36:17 am »

Dear Joey,
that is not easy to know in most of my cases, since I buy at flea markets, local antiquarians etc. They are not reliable for what concern provenance.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2014, 08:40:20 am »

Dear Giovanni,
    That's a good point.
    I started collecting in 1970 in Toronto, and buying from fellow collectors who were friends of my parents, and VERY fair to me; from antique shops who had dealt with my mom for many years, and were very fair to me; and from local Toronto auctions (Ward-Price, Waddington's, and later, Gallery 68 Auctions). The first two auction houses had well-known estate material, while Mr. Voszner's G.68 didn't, but he is a Holocaust survivor from Budapest, who got out in 1968 (hence the name), and he immediately realised I was an MOT, and 'looked after' me.
   After we moved to Israel, I was buying from YF Yang, and from the start had a special connection to this great man of the snuff bottle collecting world; and from collectors I'd meet (in South Africa, Belgium, Canada, USA, etc.). After I finished my compulsory army service in Israel in 1978, I started going to conventions of the ICSBS and meeting collectors and dealer and auctioneers at a totally different, and much higher level.
   Do you have a good 'rough' way to judge Amber from imitations?
Best,
 Joey
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 11:31:06 am »

Dear Joey,
you buy from another "planet"  Grin Grin
As for amber, I believe that the more reliable tests excluding laboratory tests are two, one being the visual inspection. I know that it is not always applicable, especially in case of very pure, uniform amber. But this is a relatively rare case. I think that it is not easy to imitate the natural non-uniformity and imperfections of natural amber. The other one is the specific mass, or specific weight. Amber has a specific mass of 1.05 to 1.1 while Bakelite has a specific mass of  1.3 to 1.4.
Now, how to determine the specific mass of an object? The best way is the weighing in water immersion test but I think that for snuff bottles is not applicable because, due to the small size and hence light mass, the measurement errors has a considerable importance. This test is god for something more heavy, like a vase for example. But we can safely determine the specific mass by comparison. We need a piece of surely real amber, and immerse it in water. It will sink. Then we can gradually add salt to water and stir it for a complete dissolution. Adding progressively salt, until the amber will start to float. In fact, real amber float in marine water. Then we can dip in the same salted water our snuff bottle, taking care that it will not retain air trapped in it. If it floats too, or it is prone to float, then it is amber. This way we do not know the figure of the specific mass but we know that it is the same of real amber.
All other homemade tests, including the UV fluorescence, has pros and contras.

Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2014, 12:51:09 pm »

Dear Giovanni,
   My problem with your test, in the case of the large amber(?) bottle you now said was bakelite, is the fact that it has a silver collar. How do you compensate for that in the test?
Joey
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2014, 01:50:25 pm »

Dear Joey,
in fact that is not possible to compensate. If you see in that thread, today I did the test with negative result. I judged that the part of collar, in terms of volume ratio with the whole bottle, is minimal so the influence should not be so dramatic. I expected that compared to a bottle of pure amber, the one with the colalr should not float but stay around that, I mean prone to float but it sunk firmly instead. So I concluded that it should be bakelite, considering also that a so big piece of amber, so uniformly transparent, should be quite exceptional.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2014, 03:14:00 pm »

Dear Giovanni,
   Thank you. I did not understand that from reading the post.
Best,
  Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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