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Buying from E-Bay

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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« on: July 22, 2014, 02:20:02 pm »

Hi  All

I  am  based  in  Hong   Kong / China   so  I  have  direct   access  to  both    artists  and   top  China-based  dealers  and have been  collecting  for   10  years   ( very seriously  collecting  for  6  years)

I also  own  the  biggest  data  base  in the   world  for  Very  Modern IPBs   = VMIPBs
(Currently   11.6 GB : Contact me   if  you   want a  copy  via   USB  memory stick)

I also  own   320   VMIPBs  with   current   rated   value    about  US$ 2  million (not  boasting  : but  that's  the   insured  value ) 

But  I would   rate  at least  10%  of  my   collection  as    either   fakes   or  total    rubbish,  and  another   20%  rated   "Of no particular value  -  count  as  learning  purchases

I  don't   wish  to  degrade  the   opportunities     to  occasionally   buy  real  bargains   on      
E-Bay ,  but  I must  tell  you   two things :

a)  You  buy  at  your  own  risk   and  there  are   many more   fakes   and  junk   than the  real  thing  out  there  on      E-Bay

b)  There   are  China-based    expert   professional   dealers   who   scour  E-Bay  and     auction sites   for   real  under-priced   bargains.  These   dealers  ( and  one  of    whom is  a  personal  friend)   who  can  afford  to   accept  the  occasional  "miss"   in  order  to  win the  majority "hits"    which are  then  re-sold   at   10 x  the  price     within China

SO:    when  you  bid  on  E-bay,  which  I'm  sure  is    lot  of   fun  for    collectors   not  based   in  HK-China,  please   understand  that   you  may be  bidding  against   professional  dealers (who  have  every  right  to  bid ! )

That's   why  I  never  bother  to  look  into   E-Bay  or  any  other  such  auction  web-sites

This  may   seem a  sour  note to   some   Forum members,  but  it's  based  on  sound   facts  of  life


Cheers

Peter

PS:  And  I  am  only  talking  about  IPBs,  in  fact only  VMIPB !     I  have   zero  expertise  in  other   snuff bottle     types,  which  is  why  I keep    completely  off the    correspondence    on these   other     snuff  bottle  types

 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:30:43 pm by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 02:21:48 pm »

I would agree with Peter. Don't look so shocked, Peter!  Wink  Cheesy  Grin
Best,
 Joey
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 02:45:56 pm »

Hi  Joey

Looking  forward  to  meeting  you  at  last  come October in HK !

Yes  :  over   30%  of  my  collection  is  junk  and  another   30%  is "of  no particular  interest  -  except to me"

But the   top   30-40%   of  my  collection  is  now  priceless . 

I  certainly  don't  mean  that  as  a   "good investment"    decision

I mean  it  as  the  fact  that  (  at  least   IMHO)  I  have   some  of  the  THE  most  beautiful   VMIPBs   ever  painted     for   daily  viewing ....

...  I  repeat     daily  viewing,  not  collecting

Which is  why  all my  bottles   are    displayed  on  open  shelves   with    full  lighting

VMIPBs  were   created   to be   VIEWED ( and   daily   enjoyed)  NOT  TO BE  COLLECTED 

Because   that's   what  the   artists   intended !

What  value  has  the Mona  Lisa  if   forever  kept  in  an underground   collector's   crypt ?

I   certainly    don't  own  the  Mona    Lisa   !

But   I  think  I  do  own the  Mona  Lisa  of   VMIPBs - Chinese / abstract  Landscapes 

You will  see  totally  mind-blasting  bottler   both  at  my  home  and  at  Xian

Cheers

Peter


* s home display ( super- compressed).jpg (40.67 KB, 448x336 - viewed 36 times.)

* CC Fu Guoshun Masterpeice @ Yantai.jpg (24.45 KB, 648x1024 - viewed 35 times.)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:10:23 pm by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 04:51:48 pm »

Dear Peter,
     I've been studying Chinese Art  and Culture for the past 44+ years. In Chinese Art, one doesn't display 40 fans or 50 scroll paintings, because then one loses the trees in the forest. A scholar would display one piece for a few days, or a week, and then put it away, so he or she can appreciate a new one brought out.
     It is so Western to want to display all the collection at once. Just as it is to say one has got 'the best' of anything.
     Have you not learned that a person in Asia refers to his own home as 'jia' (a modest house); while he refers to the other person's home as 'gong guan' or 'fu' (a mansion)?
    My dear friend, you might live in Hong Kong, speak Chinese, and have an Asian wife, but your head is firmly in the West.
   You remind me of a cousin, famous in our family as an 'A' type; he had a heart attack and was told by his GP that he had to relax, not take everything so seriously, and in effect, become a 'B' type. He told us," I'm going to be the best 'B' type there ever was..."  Wink
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 09:00:24 pm »

Dear Peter,

That is definitely good advice on the EBay. I am currently waiting for a few bad buys and hoping to have 1 good bottle out of the lot. Bidding can be very addictive comparable with gaming.

On another note, I will soon be emailing you on my trip to HK. You really don't mind meeting stranger? Grin

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 09:41:24 pm »

YT

A number of us here (Steven, George, myself, and others) are active lookers and hunters on Ebay. The occasional bargains and steals and great finds are still there but it has become much much harder than it ever was. 

I have acquired at least half of my middle period bottles from Ebay (in which 6 Ye family bottles), a Meng Zishou, a Zhou Le Yuan and many other artists there.  I used to win 6-8 good bottles a year.  Now I see one pop up only every quarter or so, and when they do, prices are becoming prohibitive. 

If you scour every day, nice things pop up.   I just don't have time to do so... Good luck!

PS. There was a bona fide Ding Erzhong on Ebay recently and I got outbid on it last minute/second...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 09:44:38 pm by Pat » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 11:52:49 pm »

Hi  Joey

Your   advice  is  well-taken   Cheesy   Grin

I'm not  sure  if  I'm  A - or  B-type  -  or  maybe   even  C -type !

I  think  definitely  C -   for  Chinese  because  I  always  light  up my   display  cabinets   whenever  guests   come  for a  meal  so they can  enjoy  the  view-fest  !

I    am  certainly   enjoying  retirement,  having  saved  up   enough  just to live (modestly)  on the   bank  interest , having  finally  kicked  off the "work  addiction"

It's  just  wonderful  to   wake  up  every  morning    with  literally   "nothing  that  needs  my  immediate  attention (except  the  Forum - when I  so decide )"

And  NO MORE  international   flights   with  jet  lag (unless  I  so  choose)

But anyway  I'm  certainly  L -type :  L =  Love

Also  W-E-type =  Welcome-Everyone  to  my little   home

It's  only  70   sq  m  but  it's  overflowing   to the   brim  with  love  and  happiness   Smiley
Pat has  been  here   (and  drunk  half  my  bottle  of  best  vintage whisky  Angry   )  so he can  vouch  for the   fact

PAT :  the  pic  you   took of  me, my   wife  and  son  is  my  all-time  favorite   pic    despite  my  awful  boxer  shorts !   Welcome   you  back  again and  again !

(And  my  home  is right  above   Wanchai  MTR  station !   Within   100  meters   ground radius I can  buy  literally anything   under the   sun  from  fresh  live  fish  to   computers  to  air  tickets  to     tailor-made  glass  to  work tools . Not to mention   2   x  Macdonalds,   3  x  KFC  and   4  x  pizza   shops    and  umpteen  draft     beer  pubs . For  grand pianos and   and   ultra-precision  model  cars  I  must  admit  I  have to  increase  the   base  ground  radius to  200  meters, but that's  not a  joke .   And  for  real-life Ferrari   and   Porsche  cars  I  must   extend    the    ground  radius to  400 meters  - as  if  I  could  afford    such  stupid  luxuries )

YT :  Of  course   you  are  welcome !  Anytime  and  every time  ( but  I am often  in my second  home  in  China so  we need to get the  dates  organised)

Good  luck   to  all   on E-Bay  and  happy  hunting.  Part  of the   fun  in  collecting  is  indeed the   HUNT !

I  learned   that  basic  lesson  when    collecting  match boxes  as a  kid .  Every  town,  every grocery  or  tobacconist  shop  I  ever  saw  I  would    rush  in and  ask "what    type  of  match  boxes  do  you  sell? "
If  even  the  "minimum   quantity"   varied  from  40  to  39   to  37...  I  would  buy  the   box

Yes  indeed  the  HUNT  is  all part  of the   fun !   Cheesy

 Be  assured   that I  will not  be  counter-bidding  on E-Bay !

I am now  buying    from  vintage   VMIPB  artists  a  la  Hengshui

Cheers

Peter
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 12:30:15 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 12:10:45 am »

Dear Pat,

I understand it will be difficult for us newbies to do EBay. My competition may not be the same as I am not into inside paint.

Dear Peter,

I will take your words for it. Careful not to take so much fast food.

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 12:51:52 am »

Hi  YT

Yes  -   go  SLOWLY

There's  a  whole  bunch  of   great  stuff  that  comes  up  at  minor   auctions    step  by  step  as   long-time  collectors    divulge their   (oft  be-knowing) collections

That's  why the  "Great"  Bloch  collection  of  1,400  bottles  is  taking  7  years   to  sell  off  at  2  x   auctions  per  year

There  are   some real  jewels  out there  to  be  captured   once  in a  while , and  every  so  often  a Pearl  of  Great  Price"  ( Matthew 13:45-46)

I finally   found my  "Pearl  of  Great  Price"   and  I  would  willingly   exchange  my  entire    collection   for  that  one  single  bottle .  No  joke !

 Fu Guoshun's  ultimate  masterpiece  and  for   which  I  paid  the   highest  ever   price  I  ever  paid    for a  direct-from-artist  VMIPB  . At that  time  I paid  US$6,000 .    Now  it   should   auction  for  US$1  Million - as  if  I  would  ever  sell it.   It's   far-distant  cousins,  much lesser   works  by  far  by  Fu  Guoshun,  now  sell  for   over  US$20K  in China (via  Wang  Xisan 's museum / shop  in Hengshui ) and  US$80 K  in  HK -  China   Arts and  Crafts

Bottom  line  : There  are  truly  "Pearls  of  Great  Price"  out there.

Seek and  you   will  find !

Cheers

Peter

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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 12:53:54 am »

Hi Peter,

Golden words about eBay. As Pat, Steven and George have affirmed, it IS possible to pick up the occasional good deal. As for real bargains......I doubt it. But, as Pat points out, you need experience, expertise, a sharp eye, and all the time in the world.

Regarding this last point, an old friend of mine in Bangkok (who used to collect snuff bottles in Hong Kong in the 1960s) has recently re-started. When I last met him I was amazed to see he had recently acquired around 20 agate bottles, all 19th century, via eBay. I was even more amazed to be told they all cost US$50 or less.  BUT, he is retired, and can afford to spend hours every day searching online.

Tom
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 01:59:23 am »

Hi  Tom

True  words  indeed

Once  I  discovered  the  "mother  lode "  of  VMIPBs in Hengshui   I  left  off   buying  through   dealers ( except   when  an  occasional   "super special"  bottle   came   up  via  Jill  Guo Jie,  in which  case  I  bought   pre-sale / pre-catalog )

Last  trip   to   Hengshui  in May  this  year  Da  Yong  showed  me   over   two  dozen  of  his  latest  creations
Every  one  was  mind-blasting.  True  "art  within a  bottle"  I  was  totally  overcome.

I  finally  focused    on   3   x     Chinese  landscape   bottles ,  out  of  which  one  shot  out  like  magic.

I dared  not   ask  Da  Yong  the  price ,  but  he  held  up  two  fingers  = RMB20,000   (  Chinese  count   in "man" =  10,000 , as  you   well know)

I  said  please  keep  the  bottle   for  3  months   for  me  and  if  I cannot  pay  you  before then  sell it  to  anyone  else

He  said "take  the  bottle  and  pay me  anytime   you  can   do  so"   So  I  took  the  bottle  Cheesy

And  I have  just  today   transferred the  money  to  Da  Yong   via  my  SH  secretary

Such is  love  in  VMIPBs

Cheers

Peter





« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 10:11:32 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 06:51:45 am »

Dear Peter,
    You are making me drool! True, half is over the KFC, pizza and MacDonalds!  Wink
But the other is over the bottles you describe and your access.
    I thank G-D that I don't live where you do, because I would weigh 200 kg. in a short space of time, as opposed to the 68-69 kg. now.  Grin
    I am really looking forward to finally meeting you and seeing your bottles in October. I arrive on Friday, 17.Oct. on the flight from Tel Aviv.
    Meanwhile, I'm busy in Ireland, organising my trip to Piacenza to see Giovanni and his dear wife Betty, on my way home to Jerusalem in Sept., and planning my Far East trip in the Autumn (Hong Kong, PRC, Taiwan, Singapore and Bangkok). 
  Best,
 Joey
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 10:50:53 am »

Hi  Joey

Are  Macdonalds,  KFC  and  Pizza  Hut   kosher ?     Wink

You  say  you   are    arriving    HK  Friday 17.10  .  That's   well ahead  of the    convention  !

Great !!!   Grin

So lets    book  Saturday 18.10  ( or  Sunday 19.10)    for  a   private   hot  pot   dinner   /  lunch  at my  place, also   with  Geoff  and  his   wife   if they  are  free    anytime  over  that  weekend

Cheers

Peter

PS :  I   promise  to make  you  drool...   !   I do  so  daily ! 

PPS  :  Who else  from the  Forum  will  be  in  HK  for   the  ICSBS  convention?   Also  when  arriving ? 









« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 10:54:08 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 01:22:20 pm »

Dear Peter,
    I want time to get over my jet lag, so I can concentrate on learning and socialising...  Wink

    I don't keep strictly kosher; just absolutely no shellfish of any sort or any pork products (ham, bacon, charsiu, pork, gammon, etc., etc.). But I don't like Pizza Hut. I love KFC and McDonalds...

    Sat.18.Oct., for lunch is great.

    Re.who's coming to the convention, I believe Jo & David from NC are coming; and Charll, his wife Donna and their 2 boys; Steven was just in China, so I doubt he'll come; Rick won't; I believe Tom is not, nor George; possibly Walter. As to dates, no clue.

   From the Kowloon Shangrila, is it easy to get to Wanchai via MTR? I know you are at Exit A4.
Best,
 Joey


Hi  Joey

Are  Macdonalds,  KFC  and  Pizza  Hut   kosher ?     Wink

You  say  you   are    arriving    HK  Friday 17.10  .  That's   well ahead  of the    convention  !

Great !!!   Grin

So lets    book  Saturday 18.10  ( or  Sunday 19.10)    for  a   private   hot  pot   dinner   /  lunch  at my  place, also   with  Geoff  and  his   wife   if they  are  free    anytime  over  that  weekend

Cheers

Peter

PS :  I   promise  to make  you  drool...   !   I do  so  daily ! 

PPS  :  Who else  from the  Forum  will  be  in  HK  for   the  ICSBS  convention?   Also  when  arriving ? 










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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 11:04:44 pm »

Hello......wasn't this thread called Buying from E-Bay ??
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 11:37:05 pm »

Agree.  We should agree not to change the titles of the postings or it will become nearly impossible to trace content in the future. 
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 01:33:51 am »

Agree.  We should agree not to change the titles of the postings or it will become nearly impossible to trace content in the future. 

Agreed...
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2014, 04:29:38 am »

Yes

Sorry   Sad
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« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2014, 04:47:03 am »

Yup, me too.   Sad
Joey


Yes

Sorry   Sad
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