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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 09:06:44 am
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owly
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« on: April 20, 2014, 10:13:10 am »

Hello friends!

I mention two auctions soon coming up:

a) Our dearly commemorated friend Robert Kleiner: On May 12th a part of his collection will be auctioned at Bonhams Knightsbridge. The bottles are certainly not the very best that Robert had, but maybe they will fetch prices available for some of us since they are good bottles with a sound history and dating. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21621/

b) On May 24 Zacke in Vienna will hold a Chinese auction. http://www.zacke.at/de/sammlung/15088/grosse-auktion-am-24-mai-2014-kunst-aus-asien  I show you a very odd item that will be put up: a large amber glass snuff bottle in the shape of a butterfly (like the Japanese which are made of laquer) but inside painted. On one side a dog on a rock. On the other side (here not shown, I quote from memory) a landscape with a lake, a village and a fishing boat. The inscription is in running script and unreadable to me. The painting is quite good. Unfortunately Zacke's server lays flat at the moment so see for the larger pics and the rear later.

Who can say that he has ever seen such a bottle and what it is. I take it for a new and eventually a Japanese bottle with a nice inside painting but highly unusual. pricing 1000-1500 USD (too much)

best, Ulrich


* zacke1.JPG (60.61 KB, 500x497 - viewed 38 times.)
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 12:47:19 pm »

Dear Ulrich and all,
have you seen the bottles that will be on auction next month at Christie's? An incredible collection of tourmaline bottles!
http://christies.scene7.com/s7/brochure/flash_brochure.jsp?company=Christies&sku=CKS1523_SaleCat&config=Christies/eCat_210x267_Full&locale=en&image=Christies/CKS1523_SaleCat
Giovanni
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 01:12:36 pm »

Why is it when I go to auction for Roberts bottles, all that pops up is his library ?  I can not seem to find the bottles any longer .. 

Also, the link for the May 24 Zacke auction returns an error page..

Love that amber bottle Ulrich !!
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owly
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 01:44:01 pm »

George

Please try again and scroll down. Robert's first bottle ist item #174, a beautiful post-taiping ruby red glass overlay snuff bottle, estimate ca. 1000 USD.

Please do you have any comments on the amber glass one?

best, Ulrich
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 02:31:58 pm »

Dear Ulrich,
   I don't like the amber glass IPSB, but I think it could be 1950s/1970s tourist quality. But Steven is much better than me in evaluating bottles over the internet. Steven, What do you think?
Joey


George

Please try again and scroll down. Robert's first bottle ist item #174, a beautiful post-taiping ruby red glass overlay snuff bottle, estimate ca. 1000 USD.

Please do you have any comments on the amber glass one?

best, Ulrich
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 02:45:44 pm »

Ah.. Starts off on page 18..

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21621/#/MR0_page=18&MR0_length=10&MR0_category=list&m0=0
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owly
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 03:01:24 pm »

Thanks Joey, I agree

Z. says she has a certificate for the bottle. Sometimes it feels good to be a nonbeliever Cheesy

Ulrich
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owly
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 03:25:50 pm »

Dear Giovanni
Yes, Christies King Street at its best. Tourmaline Galore !!  But the jades, the pendants and the toggles also!

After this sale the mainland Chinese economy will drop remarkably and the British pound will strengthen.

Have a nice evening

Ulrich
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 09:40:31 pm »

Dear Ulrich and all,

That amber glass bottle was painted by  the shandong master Wen Xiangjun文向君, he was the  student of Yue Jingwan and Zhang wentang, not as famous as Li Kechang and Zhang Guangqing, Zhang Guangzhong, but he is a very good artist as well.

The bottle is very painted in my opinion, the painting is very balanced, strokes are fluent and strengthful, I can't read the date well,but as Joey suggested 60s-70s, could be early 60s since the name signed, not like unsigned bottle during the culture revolutions.

The estimate is a little high for such a simple design bottle, but you will never know, I would like to see how it goes.

Steven
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 10:33:44 pm »


Dear Ulrich and all,
have you seen the bottles that will be on auction next month at Christie's? An incredible collection of tourmaline bottles!


Dear Giovanni,

This is indeed a remarkable collection of tourmaline bottles and pendants.
Oddly, I haven't received any notification from Christie's for this auction. Thank you for pointing it out.

Tom

Postscript: I just received the Bonhams auction catalogues for the two London sales in mid-May.
One thick catalogue (0.5 kg!) with almost 500 lots only has 6 lots of snuff bottles. Two are double lots, so there are 8 actual bottles in it.   
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:21:42 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 03:38:35 am »

Dear Ulrich,
   In Zacke, I am also a nonbeliever!  Wink   Cheesy
Joey



Thanks Joey, I agree

Z. says she has a certificate for the bottle. Sometimes it feels good to be a nonbeliever Cheesy

Ulrich
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owly
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 03:20:10 pm »

Hi Joey and all

Here is the Zacke website again with some snuff bottles. http://www.zacke.at/en/sammlung/15088/grosse-auktion-am-24-mai-2014-kunst-aus-asien/suche/snuff%2520bottle?page=2  Now she says that the unusual bottle was from the early period! I wonder what Steven would say to this. BTW I want to thank Steven for his comment. Last night I was too tired so I forgot (UTC +2 where I live).

Ulrich
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 04:17:53 pm »

Dear Ulrich,
     The bottle's painting that I can see is quite nice, but I can't get past the fugly (f---ing ugly) bottle shape.
It could even be late 1950s. but not earlier.
    What does she mean by "early period"?!
Joey

    I just accessed the site, and was first shocked by an attribution to the early period, ie. ca.1800-1830! Is the cataloguer ignorant, criminal or crazy?

    Then I looked carefully at the reverse, and got a second shock. Gorgeous painting of a structure on water with a man in a boat! That is, in my opinion, much the finer side. Modern period (mid-1950s to mid-1970s) but very fine painting.
But I still can't get past the fugly shape...
Joey
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 04:30:12 pm »

Hi Ulrich,

Thanks for the link! when I zoomed in on the pic, I can  see the script clearly " painted in 1969 by 'Xiang Jun'", so Joey was perfectly right on the date.

I thought it could be a little earlier, since most late 60s bottles were not signed with signatures.

Steven

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 04:32:59 pm »

Dear Steven,
    Thank you, but the bottle blank could have been made even 10 or 12 years earlier, and only painted in 1969.
    When I first commented, I'd not yet seen the reverse. It is REALLY WELL DONE! But the shape...
Joey
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 04:38:48 pm »



    I just accessed the site, and was first shocked by an attribution to the early period, ie. ca.1800-1830! Is the cataloguer ignorant, criminal or crazy?

    Then I looked carefully at the reverse, and got a second shock. Gorgeous painting of a structure on water with a man in a boat! That is, in my opinion, much the finer side. Modern period (mid-1950s to mid-1970s) but very fine painting.
But I still can't get past the fugly shape...
Joey

Dear Joey,

I have to agree with you that auction house seems no much experience on the snuff bottles, most of the bottles dated wrong.Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 06:01:59 pm »

Dear Steven,
    I corresponded with Gallerie Zacke in Vienna 15+ years ago, and sent them my catalogues, and a few other good reliable catalogues, to help them in dating. They never changed their false datings. I have to assume that they are able to get away with false dating on their wares. So I don't bid in their auctions. EVER.
Best,
  Joey
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 09:49:12 pm »


    I corresponded with Gallerie Zacke in Vienna 15+ years ago, and sent them my catalogues, and a few other good reliable catalogues, to help them in dating. They never changed their false datings. I have to assume that they are able to get away with false dating on their wares.


Hmmm......blatantly "getting away with false dating" isn't really good enough. There are laws across most of the civilized world (Austria included) to regulate advertisers; and companies can be sued for making false claims.

Seemingly, auctioneers of "antiques" are exempt from these laws when advertising their goods....   Huh

Tom
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2014, 02:42:04 pm »

I agree, but one can only fight so many battles...
Joey
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2014, 08:49:46 pm »

Yes, I agree it is not ethical AND rampant, but it is hard to fight against it....
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Best Regards

Pat
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