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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


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Chiang Kai Shek Portrait Bottle

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wgeoff
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« on: January 26, 2014, 04:25:30 pm »

My second bottle posting here on the forum.
From the few I have available at the moment, I've chosen this portrait of Chiang Kai Shek.



Once again, I don't remember where I bought this but I know I was intrigued to find a portrait of Chiang Kai Shek in China so it was probably in Beijing. Also I thought the painting quite accurate (a copy of a 1924 photo I think) and the calligraphy looked good. The artist used a cross-hatching technique to get various shades of grey.

I also discovered how difficult it is to photograph a bottle and get the right colour and shape. I'm used to photographing birds (feathered), they are easier for colour and shape but they move.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 10:09:46 pm by wgeoff » Report Spam   Logged

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wgeoff
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 04:27:31 pm »

I meant to add. There is a small break in the back of this bottle.
I think it was there when I bought it.
Is it likely to deteriorate? I had a bottle with a small crack but which shattered into pieces in my display cabinet once.
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wgeoff
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 04:31:35 pm »

Here is a closeup of the inscription on this bottle

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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 05:21:30 pm »

Geoff,

A very nice portrait bottle as best that I can tell from the photos alone.  I presume the bottle is glass, and if so, the observed crack is likely to be an impact fracture from a drop, being struck, or a fall against other bottles or onto a display shelf.  Abrupt or sudden changes in the bottles surface temperature or wide swings in barometric pressure while the bottle is sealed could cause the crack to expand.  My opinion it would be best to display such a bottle out any direct sunlight (which will fade the image) or store it in a padded box where there is no great swings in temperature.  I would also store it with the top off or make an adjustment to the cork on the stopper to prevent a complete seal and to allow a slight venting to maintain an equal air pressure in and outside the bottle. 

Now if the bottle body is quartz, the crack is likely a natural inclusion in the crystal and any further expansion would not be expected to occur regardless of environmental conditions. 

Thanks for sharing and others here that read Chinese can provide some insight to the translation of the calligraphy if so desired. 

Charll
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 05:52:26 pm »

Hi Geoff,

Another beauty! this bottle was painted by 大羽 da yu in 1997 in 华艺轩 Hua yi Xuan studio, Hua yi xuan should be the master Wang qian's studio, Da Yu could be Wang qian's one of top students.

Here is a link for Master Wang qian for your reference.

http://www.wangqianneihua.com/

Best!

Steven
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 06:20:56 pm »

A very nice bottle... !

Beautiful portrait painting.

Maybe this is the same Lishu (Li-shu, Li script), clerical script on the reverse of your bottle that Joey told for one of Richards bottles. The type of calligraphy used for official texts in Chinese.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 02:55:18 am by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 07:39:06 pm »

Hi Geoff, All

Da  Yu  大 羽  is   the pen name  of  Ma Baoku  马 保 库

You can check him out  on my data  base.  He used to live in Shijiazhuang, but I heard  he recently  move  to  work  under  Zhang Tieshan in Xian

I have   several  of his bottles, but all from   about   2008  onwards

I have  never seen  any of his  earlier   works, so this   is  an interesting example of his  early work  when he was  still a  student

Cheers
Peter

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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 01:02:42 am »

Hi Geoff

Very nice bottle! Welcome to the Forum....   
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Best Regards

Pat
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2014, 01:13:08 am »

Ma Baoku    details   attached

It  does  not   actually say  he  was a  pupil of  Wang Qian,  but  until  recently  he lived  in Shijiazhuang,  which is where  Wang Qian's 华艺轩 Hua yi Xuan studio is based

Ma Baoku has  now  moved to  Xian

Cheers
Peter


* CC Ma Baoku Bio @ CIPMA.jpg (49.56 KB, 738x1024 - viewed 19 times.)
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wgeoff
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2014, 02:51:58 am »

Wow, thanks for all this information on my bottle. Just what I wanted when I joined the forum.

The bottle is glass, the crack is an impact fracture. I will adjust the cork to make it looser, hope it doesn't get any worse.

Looking forward to meeting you Peter.

Geoff
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2014, 05:21:49 am »

Hi  Geoff

Happy to  help,  but  you ain't seen nothing yet!

When  we meet  up I'll give  you a  copy of  my  9 GB  data   base  on MIPBs

BTW:  I'm  certain that  a  tight stopper cannot possibly  be a  factor  in cracking a  bottle .  Assuming the   stopper  is  airtight ( which it almost  certainly  isn't ) the  pressure  difference  between a  cold and hot  day  is  minuscule  compared to the  pressure that  a  bottle  that thick  can  withstand without  breaking.

Cheers
Peter
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 09:12:55 am »

Quote
Assuming the   stopper  is  airtight ( which it almost  certainly  isn't ) the  pressure  difference  between a  cold and hot  day  is  minuscule  compared to the  pressure that  a  bottle  that thick  can  withstand without  breaking.

Geoff,

Peter is likely correct with the above statement.  I did not realize you were Hong Kong.  Here in California where we live there can be a temperature swing as much as 40 degrees Fahrenheit (23 degrees C) in a day and a 20 degrees change inside the house.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 01:48:49 pm »

Hi  Charll,

 Wink

A little-known  law  of  physics ( well  ...  little-known outside the   art  world ! )   is that  gas pressure in a  fixed  volume   varies   according to the  formula  : P  = N x  T , where   N   is a   constant  and T is  the  temperature.

But....  T  is  expressed  in degrees  Kelvin (K)    which is the  number  of  degrees  above  absolute   zero.
 
Absolute  zero  is  minus  273   deg  centigrade (C) !

Thus a  20  deg   C  variation in  temperature  around  room temperature  ( 20 deg C) i.e.   from  10 deg C -  30 deg C  = 283 K  - 303 K   results  in only a  pressure difference   change of [(303 - 283)/ 293] x 100  =  7%.

But far more  important:

a)the  kind of  stoppers  that are  used on  snuff bottles, although they may appear to be  tight, at least for  water,  leak  like a  sieve  for  air  so the  pressure  would   slowly  equalize  as  the  temperature  changes

b) based  on the   typical   thickness of the   glass/  quartz of  modern  IPBs ( and even   antique  bottles   which  were  much  thinner  and made of  glass)  the   bottle  could  withstand   a  pressure change  of    1 - 3   atmospheres i.e.  100 - 300 % .

I have  not  tested  a  bottle to that extreme but I bet my hat that's the case !

While  on the  question  of  physics, I also don't  agree  with the    snuff bottle  urban myth  that   exhibiting  one's  IPB  collection   makes the   painting  fade : at  least  not  if  one   exhibits one's collection  in  a  glass  cabinet  inside a  room  with  normally-closed glass  windows   ( or  at least  if the outside windows  are  kept open, the   cabinet  is not in the  line  of  direct   sunlight  from the   windows)
 
Glass  absorbs  90%  of the  UV radiation  from the  sun, which is  why  one  cannot get  sunburned indoors - only 10%  of the   UV gets  through the  windows.
Thus a  double  layer  of  glass ( the   house  windows  and the   glass cabinet doors)   are  ample  protection:  10% x 10%  =  1% .

And...  one   must also  add  the  extra  layer of  glass  of the  bottle  itself  because the  painting  is  on  the  inside ! 10% x 10%  x 10%  =  0.1 % !!

I can understand that   some  antique  bottles   got  faded  because they were  probably  sitting in  an  open, sunny  Chinese   room  for  decades  before they came to the  West, OR,  much more  likely ,  there  are  simply chemical   reasons  for  fading colors  with  age based  on the  kind of  paints  that  were used  100  years  ago for  IPbs. 

 But if   fading    due to  sunlight inside a  normal  room  with   glass  windows  is   really  a  major  fading factor  how is it  that   normal   canvas paintings   survive  for  centuries ? 

Each to their  own  taste, but as for  me, I  exhibit  my collection   24/7  in  glass  cabinets  which  are  away  from  direct   sunlight   so I can  enjoy  every bottle    24/7. The  cabinet  has  internal  lights  from every possible  direction  which can be  turned  on  individually when visitors   come. 

And the   total  cost of the  cabinet (tailor-made)  was less  than I ever paid  for  just one  good  bottle

(But...  I  do  stick  down every really  precious  or  unstable  bottle with  blue-tack  to a  little  wooden  stand in case it  falls  over on the  glass  shelves )

Cheers
Peter




* s home display ( compressed).jpg (331.65 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 22 times.)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 02:10:45 pm by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

rpfstoneman
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2014, 03:58:37 pm »

Peter, 

Regardless of the physics, expansion of cracks due to abrupt temperature changes in glass does occur.  I have to replace the windshield on my truck once every year or two because I often do not deal with the impacts from pebbles thrown by passing vehicles (the little dinks in the glass) soon enough. 

Quote
But if fading due to sunlight inside a normal room with glass windows is really a major fading factor  how is it that normal canvas paintings survive for centuries?

In regard to the above, note I said direct sunlight.  I have both faded lithographs, furniture fabric, and a IPSBs in our living room as proof.  The bottles were displayed in a glass cabinet.  What a did not notice was the sun in late afternoon during the summer was coming though our double pane windows for less than an hour before it dropped behind some trees prior to setting.  We love natural light and live in a area were curtains on the windows off north side of the house are unnecessary.  This limited exposure to the sun for less than a hour a day for two months of the year was enough to cause problems.  I have since placed my stone bottles in the cabinets and move the IPBs to the a cabinet on the darker (no sun exposure) side of the room.  Had to throw out the wall hangings and placed a throws over the furniture were they sit with their backs to a window.

Charll   

   
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2014, 04:40:43 pm »

Hi Charll

Once a   crack  starts  in  glass  ( or  any  other  solid  medium)  it  will  propagate,  which  explains  your  windshield  problem. Same   world over.

Windshield  glass  is   made  under  VERY  different    production  than  any  quartz  IP  bottle.
 Windshield glass  is  highly  pre-tensed  so that it   fractures   rather  than  cracks  under impact

Windshields  are  designed  to   crack  first,  rather  than  break   catastrophically, but  once the  crack  starts  (caused  by a   flying  stone) it cannot  be    stopped.    But  please  note  "flying   stone"  =  shock ! 

Pressure   changes    are  not   Shock

Re  fading,  yes of  course  it's  a   big   problem   with any  furniture,  fabrics, even   floor  tiles   exposed to  constant   sunlight   that  gets  direct   sunlight  for most of  the  day  ( especially with  today's   cheap   fabric   dyes)

So  the  answer  for  our  SBs  is   simply to

a)  put  them in a  glass  cabinet

b)  arrange the  cabinet  out of  direct   sunlight


But  finally, it's  all a question  of  taste ,  and  each to his  own  taste

  Smiley

Cheers
Peter

« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 04:45:42 pm by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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