The Tao Of Painting / Discussion Of The Fundamentals Of Painting

[George]

To the expert collectors here, none of this is new, but for a novice like myself, this new book, The Tao of Painting, Discussion of the Fundamentals of Painting is a real eye opener. 

Not knowing much about Chinese art, the book is a fantastic illustrated reference for understanding and making the connection between ancient scroll, silk, and paper painting fundamentals used by the ancient Great Master scroll/canvas painters and how IP artist have, and still do apply these fundamentals to their works.

This volume is broken up in 13 books. Here are some parts ( books ) that really seem to apply to our IP's

Chi'ing Tsai T'ang Discussion of the Fundamentals of Painting
Book of Trees
Book of Rocks
Book of Jen-wu ( figures )
Book of Orchid
Book of Bamboo
Book of Plum
Book of Chrysanthemum
Book of Grasses, Insects, and Flowering Plants
Book of Feathers and Fur, and Flowering Plants

As I look at the great many and extremely detailed examples within this particular book, it is really interesting to see how Early, Middle, Modern, and Very Modern IP artists did and still do follow some very specific ancient fundamentals that the Great Masters of scroll/silk artists used.

Using one of Pat's bottles as an example, there are some obvious fundamentals that stand out..

The use of dotted foliage, the style of mountains, the stream flowing into a waterfall.
The figures although drawn well, not in great detail so as to compliment the mountain, and the mountain in turn bending over and watching over the figures (Jen-wu ).
The ( lookout ? ) pavilian above the waterfall, villiage dwellings to the left, and right..

These are just a few details that seem to follow closely the fundamentals of ancient Master scroll, canvas painters. The method of painting, positioning of each, the over all ballace (Tao) of the painting within Pat's bottle really says a lot about how the artist was influence by and used of a great many "specific fundemantals" of Great Master artists. 

The book goes into much more detailed illustrations, of which there are many more ancient fundamentals that could apply to Pat's bottle, and others.. I just touched on a couple.

Any way.., bored, and wanted to post something, so just rambling a little from excitement of what I am learning from within the new book ! 

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi George

Interesting new  thread !

As a  collector   of  almost   exclusively  Chinese  landscape  VMIPBs  ( but  as a  complete    dumbo  as regards  Chinese  art  per  se,  but  perhaps  with a  good  natural  eye  and certainly  a  lot  of  love  for what I think  is  "good  stuff " ) I have  been   fascinated   at  how  the  VMIPB  school  has  developed   Chinese   classical  landscape  painting  styles  and  "modernized"  them, as  well  as  becoming  increasingly   abstract, and thereby more  beautiful.

When I  make  my presentation  to the  ICSBS  in Xian  on VMIPBs , rather than   rattle  on about the   4  major   schools,  I  intend to  focus  mostly  on  the  development   within the  modern IP   era  of :

  a) abstract themes  and  pure  " artistic beauty"

    e.g.  compare  the traditional Chinese landscape  art style  bottle  from Pat   with the  landscape I attach  below 
       ( by Li Shouxun)  : they  both  have the  same  basic  "Tao" elements
 
  b) painting skills

     e.g.   compare  the    almost-cartoon-style  cat  pic  below  (which actually is  an  early  WXS !) with
             a  recent  cat  masterpiece by  Zhang Keqin

Lots to discuss....

Cheers
Peter

[Wattana]

George,
     An interesting new thread. I have to correct your assumption that "to expert collectors here, none of this is new". I have been collecting for 40 years, and all of this is new! Admittedly, I don't collect IP bottles, but even if I did, this looks like an excellent source book for the non-Chinese collector.
     Please give full details of the book's title, author, publisher, etc.

Peter,
     I respectfully request that you please reduce the file size of your two "cat" images, so we can view them properly without a 42-inch monitor!   

Tom

[Pat - 查尚杰]

George

Thanks for using my bottle as an example ... Where did you acquire the book?  I have to find myself a copy....

Thanks!

[misfit38]

I too would be interested, as a novice, in where you acquired the book. Interesting thread also.

[George]

The book, The Tao of Painting, A study of the ritual disposition of Chinese painting, by Mai Mai Sze.

This book I found on eBay and is volume two of two: The Chieh Tzu Yuan Hua Chuan, Bollingen Serries XLIX, Pantheon Books.

The two volume works is the forty ninth in a series of books sponsored by and published for Bollingen Foundation.

My volume two is 1956 copyright, 587 pages, of which 550 pages are jam packed with detailed illustrations and lengthy descriptions.

I am not finding another copy of this same volume 2 online, but do see a copy with both volumes 1 and 2 in one book http://www.amazon.com/The-Tao-Painting-Disposition-Bollingen/dp/B001PFWNCW

Good Reads is suggesting it can be read online, but I can't get it to download. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8538801-tao-of-painting

Also looks like there are a couple of pdf resources https://www.google.com/#q=The+Tao+of+Painting%3A+A+Study+of+the+Ritual+Disposition+

Ah.. Wait a second... There are a number of them, different copyright dates on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The%20Tao%20of%20Painting%3A%20A%20Study%20of%20the%20Ritual%20Disposition%20of%20Chinese%20Painting

There are no individual copies any where for just volume 1... Will be watching for it now that I have volume 2.

[Wattana]

Thanks George!

Tom

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi Tom

Sorry, I attached a   2  MB   pic  of the  persian  cat by accident ,   which I  have replaced  by a  200  kB  version.  But the  other  2  pics  were  only  200 kB.

Cheers
Peter

[George]

Well, I found volume one, but appears to be the exact same thing as volume 2..

I do not see any difference, yet there must be as there are editions that include both one and two..

Hmm...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B007BP2U8M/ref=dp_olp_used_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=used

[Wattana]

Sorry, I attached a   2  MB   pic  of the  persian  cat by accident ,   which I  have replaced  by a  200  kB  version.  But the  other  2  pics  were  only  200 kB.

Thanks Peter, much appreciated!

You are correct, the first cat image is only 204 KB, but it is 1595 pixels wide. I remember someone on the forum once saying that 600 pixels wide was the 'ideal' size. Consequently, I never look at how many KB my pictures are, only the pixel width.

Tom

[Wattana]

Well, I found volume one, but appears to be the exact same thing as volume 2..

I do not see any difference, yet there must be as there are editions that include both one and two..

Hmm...

George,

It could be that the description is mis-spelled, and it really means Vol. II, although it does say 'one' in words too.
An enigma...

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

George,
   Very good thread, and I also have learned and refreshed knowledge from it.
One minor correction: Before the modern period, you NEVER find paintings on canvas in China.
On paper, on silk, and even on glass (reverse paintings done in Guangzhou), but not canvas. So every time you add   " /canvas", it's a bit off.
   Canvas is a Western medium of art; NOT Chinese (I am speaking re.classical Chinese art; till 1930 or possibly even till 1950).
Best,
  Joey

[George]

After digging a little deeper, not so sure there are a great many advantages in addition to volume one for the purpose of what we might apply to our IP's ..

I can tell you that volume two covers not only the first cannon, but five more..

As far as the Elements of a Picture, volume two covers in great detail..

I think as far as using either of these volumes for the purpose of understanding the ancient fundamentals of painting, that volume two does the trick..

Here are the contents for volume one..

[Wattana]

Thanks for researching this, George. Good to know.
It looks as if Volume One is more of an introduction to the concepts, while Volume Two deals more with the application of those concepts. Would that be a fair assessment?

Tom

[George]

Thanks for researching this, George. Good to know.
It looks as if Volume One is more of an introduction to the concepts, while Volume Two deals more with the application of those concepts. Would that be a fair assessment?

Tom

Yes, I agree Tom ..

[George]

After getting a hold of someone who actually has both volumes, here is how he described the differences..

The volume I is the scholarly writing about the philosophy of Chinese painting in history. it covers Taoism, and Ch'an, and other religious movements, the history of the literati and mainly this is the bulk of the scholarship.  It has many illustrations in b/w and color, many of which fold out due to their long horizontal formats (i.e. scrolls). Volume II is a reproduction of the ancient text "The Mustard Seed Manual of Painting' which was created to instruct artists on how to render forms in nature, mainly clouds, mountains, rivers, various trees and plants, etc...

[George]

Found a real nice book that I believe will really compliment the Tao Of Painting book..

Eight Dynasties Of Chinese Painting : The Collections of the Nelson Gallery-Atkins Museum, Kansas City, and The Cleveland Museum of Art.
Published 1980 by The Cleveland Museum of Art in cooperation with Indiana University Press.

A huge, 400+ page book with virtually each and every page illustrated with very familiar works of ancient Chinese art that the artists of our IP's themes/scenes have copied from. Divided up by chronologies of China's Dynasties.

I am surprised at how many paintings within each and every Dynasty are so familiar.. To be honest, hardly a page can be turned without recognizing a familiar IP painting copied from the ancient Chinese artists of each Dynasty..

This is such an inexpensive book, that it will be much easier to simply buy it and see for yourselves.. 

AbeBooks.com has several..    

[Wattana]

This looks like a gem of a book George.
Thanks for sharing the information.

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Just ordered my own copy. Thanks for the tip George!

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear George,
 I just ordered a copy as well. Thanks,
 Joey