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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 08:48:55 pm
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New Porcelain Bottle !

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George
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« on: November 30, 2013, 05:09:35 am »

I also thought was going to have to part with this one, but turns out that it will be a keeper !

Thank you Steven for providing a description of the theme..

Mark on base is the pig Zhu bajie, and the theme is Pan si dong  盘丝洞 or Pan si cave, there are lots of spider witches living in the cave, and they all want to eat Tang Monk who is monkey king and the Pig's master, those ladies on the bottle are all the spider witches.

19th Century, and 3 1/8" tall..

For additional slide show pics..



« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 05:35:43 am by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2013, 01:18:40 pm »

Thank you George for showing this and Steven for the explication. I believe that it is a rare motif, I have never heard that before.
Giovanni
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 02:31:31 pm »

Thank you George for showing this and Steven for the explication. I believe that it is a rare motif, I have never heard that before.
Giovanni


I am sure that I could have searched until blue in the face and never, ever would have found this theme... Very grateful that Steven recognized it !
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 09:31:46 pm »

Yes, I agree. Steven is a fountain of knowledge for some of the more obscure motifs. This one isn't in any of my reference books on Chinese stories and motifs.

Tom
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 06:05:02 am »

I agree as well, but what is a 'Spider Witch'? The women on George's bottle just look to me like Chinese ladies...
Happy Hanuka,
Joey
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 06:37:16 am »

Joey,

A spider/witch is a witch that believes themselves to be immortal if they eat the monk's flesh..
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2013, 06:48:24 am »

 OK... but Gross!
    But I don't understand where the 'Spider' comes in. Is the witch actually a spider in body with a human head and extremities, or is the term spider referring to the witch's attitude?
    The Spider Witches illustrated on the bottle look like regular willowy Chinese ladies.
Joey
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 07:08:13 am »

I can only guess the connection is because of the cave being called the "silk" cave..

Perhaps there is a connection between silk spider webs, and the witches who live in the cave among the webs/spiders.. ?


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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 09:15:40 am »

Well, that sounds plausible. I thought that possibly they were spiders with human heads and hands.
Which actually sounds disgusting as well.
I  had typed in 'spider witches in Chinese culture' and found nothing.
Thanks,
Joey
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 04:26:52 pm »

Joey,

Since I get to keep this bottle, it gave me a chance to use one of the beautiful spoons you sent me...

Not 100% sure yet if I like this particular stopper on this bottle though.



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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 10:25:59 pm »

OK... but Gross!
    But I don't understand where the 'Spider' comes in. Is the witch actually a spider in body with a human head and extremities, or is the term spider referring to the witch's attitude?
    The Spider Witches illustrated on the bottle look like regular willowy Chinese ladies.
Joey

Dear Joey,

Not sure how this discussion turns out to be that interesting, actually the spider witches are the spiders from the heaven, and they have spell magics to turn into human being and trick the Tang xuanzhang,  the Tang monk traveled to the "Western Regions" during the Tang Dynasty to obtain sacred texts , during the Journal he had to face all kind of tests the buddha gave him, spider witch in silk cave or twist silk cave are on of them, so there are all kind of witches in that fairy tale.Smiley

-George,

I don't know if there is any english version of picture books for the journal to the west,but when I was a kid, there are ,many versions of picture books for it.

Steven
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 10:44:28 pm »


I don't know if there is any english version of picture books for the journal to the west,but when I was a kid, there are ,many versions of picture books for it.


George,

I assume this comment is referring to your post about a book of Journey to the West...

You may have to end up buying a pictorial Chinese language version to 'view' alongside the (non-illustrated) English version. A thought....  Wink
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 11:46:13 pm »

Steven,
    When I was a kid, I loved Horror and Science Fiction/Horror stories and movies. Then I got sick of it  (I believe around the time in 1969 that I watched "Night Of The Living Dead" in the cinema, and was scared sh-tless coming home after dark - I WAS 12!).
    I could not understand what "Spider Witches" were, and it bothered me. So if I understand this correctly, these are spiders from the next world, who take human form in this world, and are evil, and want to kill and eat the Monkey King. Gotcha...   Wink
Happy Hanuka!
Joey


OK... but Gross!
    But I don't understand where the 'Spider' comes in. Is the witch actually a spider in body with a human head and extremities, or is the term spider referring to the witch's attitude?
    The Spider Witches illustrated on the bottle look like regular willowy Chinese ladies.
Joey

Dear Joey,

Not sure how this discussion turns out to be that interesting, actually the spider witches are the spiders from the heaven, and they have spell magics to turn into human being and trick the Tang xuanzhang,  the Tang monk traveled to the "Western Regions" during the Tang Dynasty to obtain sacred texts , during the Journal he had to face all kind of tests the buddha gave him, spider witch in silk cave or twist silk cave are on of them, so there are all kind of witches in that fairy tale.Smiley

-George,

I don't know if there is any english version of picture books for the journal to the west,but when I was a kid, there are ,many versions of picture books for it.

Steven
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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