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a proposal ,a book for bottles from the forum's member?

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Steven
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« on: October 31, 2013, 11:26:10 pm »

I have been thinking this for a while, but thought its not so practical . so gave up the idea.

But I still want hear some comments from your guys.Smiley

I know that we have a group of friends  here can publish their own book already, like Peter, Richard  . also we have Joey who already published several books. I don't know others, but I do want to publish a book some day if possible or my collections can grow one day, which might be 20 years later.Smiley

But I think that we can publish a book together, this case, we only need to share a small group of bottle everyone, then we can have a big collections together. also we got all the resource,and knowledge, even some great stories on the forum , those all can be written on the book if we can organize them,  we can share the cost, if we do make some money, we can contribute to the forum , keep it growing...

That is only my day dream, there is a lot of things need to be considered, like how to take photographs? do we need collect all the bottles together?... but I certainly can do the editing of the photos, and design the cover...

That is my halloween day thoughts after a cup of beer, any inputs or comments?

Steven
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 11:52:48 pm »

Hi Steven,

That is an interesting idea (are you sure it was only ONE cup of beer!?!  Grin ).

I have been thinking of publishing my own little collection for some time. But the costs always looked too high. And then how many actually get sold.....50 copies?....100? I think a minimum printing run is around 500, so you get stuck with several hundred copies which get given to friends and relatives who have no interest in snuff bottles.

With the advances in e-book technology I have reached the conclusion that e-publishing is the way forward. In 5-10 years everyone will be wanting to 'read' books on their Kimble or iPad. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE books. there is nothing like the feel and smell of both new and old books printed on good paper. But the practicality of publishing books on a highly specialized topic like snuff bottles has a limited future.

Another advantage of e-publishing your collection is that it can easily be edited and updated as the collection grows or changes shape.

I'd be interested to know what other forum members think.

Tom 
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 12:28:01 am »

Hi Steven & Tom

Great suggestions!

I have long been encouraged by fellow collectors to publish my collection which I intend to too.

However, as Tom rightly pointed out, the cost is one of the main factor that are stopping most of us. It only make sense to publish a certain minimum quantity (500 to 1000 copies) to justify the cost. However, given a small community, how to circulate these publications can be a challenge. Based on my experience in publishing two titles as a group, it can help to reduce the cost but then come the question of inventory.

The first title we published, Chinese Snuff Bottles: Exhibition Held In Conjunction With The 34th Annual Convention Of The ICSBS - 2002 was shared among 7

Snuff Bottles: Little Gems Of Delight, our second title, has a bigger group of participants. There were 37 collectors involved and I have my share of 100 copies of the book, both hard cover and soft cover version.

Fortunately, I have managed to sell quite a number of copies to fellow collectors, some local book stores as well as online. However, some of the other participants still have their inventory of books in their storeroom, not knowing how to do with them.

Although I definitely like the feel and look of a hard copy, an electronic ebook is the other option. However, there are certain disadvantages, like limited audience and multiple platforms. Some collectors are not tech savvy and may shy away from such options. The availability of different reading devices (computers both Mac & Windows platform, Kindle, iPad, Android, etc) will complicate the issue of a compatible format as well. Nowadays, there is also an option of a 'print while you need' option that allow you to publish when only required basis, but it will have limited market.

Next is the question of the layout itself. As a group effort, do we want to standardise the photos, text and page layout or give a free hand to individual collector? Who will be editing and co-ordinating the project?

Sorry to sound negative, but these are very real issues that we will face should we decide to proceed.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards.


Richard




 

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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 02:26:37 am »

Dear Steven,
it is an attractive idea at first glance, but I must say that I share the thoughts of Tom and Richard. Particularly, the commercial aspect is the most negative point; as said by Tom, most of the copies will be given as gift. A few years ago I had the idea of publishing a book on the Jun shards in the collection of the museum of Parma. The scope of the work was not to make money, it was to help the funds of the museum. Well, a printed copy was not viable due to the costs, so with the help of a friend we decide to opt to an electronic format. An Italian scholar, who is very knowledgeable on Chinese ceramics, wrote an updated essay on the matter. The resulting e-book was nice and very interesting under the point of view of reading, I have never seen an e-book so practical in use. Now, consider the follow.
It was a specialized matter, with surely a less amount of people interested on the matter than snuff bottles, but snuff bottles too can be considered as a matter of limited audience.
Despite that, I was confident that at least 300 hundred copies could be sold, because it was largely advertised on the ceramic's forum Gotheborg and because, if you google for "Jun shards", the first two links that pops up are related to it.
Do you know how many copies has been sold? 37, and all them among Gotheborg members. It seems unbelievable that in the all World nobody do google for "Jun shards", but that apparently is the truth.
I believe that a book as you you have in mind will be of interested of the members here only.
An option could be a special section here on the forum, but this must be discussed with George.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 02:44:14 am »

Not much to add here, frankly.  All points are right on, although Steven's idea is noble and commendable.  I think books are a thing of the past.  What we could do is open a joint website that we agree on/invest in and find some way to leverage as supporting the forum.
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 03:46:12 am »

What we could do is open a joint website that we agree on/invest in and find some way to leverage as supporting the forum.

Pat,
   Sounds like the right way to go, in my opinion.
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 04:03:43 am »

Thanks Tom

Think of the huge amount of information we have here that we could (and should) repackage and restructure, in addition to showcasing our own collections as we see fit. In addition, it would enhance and increase the value of our individual holdings.  I was thinking it could have a public section and a private section, with memberships that would feed the forum,... Anyway.. just a thought...

For example.. we talked about photographing our collection in 3d, great but expensive stuff. Likely 5-10K USD worth.  We have 6 Asian resident members here already (me, Peter, Richard, Tom, Inn Bok, Curt). We could share the cost and share the usage, this could later be increased and resold, recirculated, moved around, or whatever to others who want to make use.  Just loose thoughts ...

I want to evolve to an online interactive type ICSBS. The forum is great but it is just not visual enough and too hierarchical in structure.  Anyway.  I am NOT proposing we change this Forum or do away with it but we need a stronger joint presence in the cloud, and be THE online catalog and collector's showcase for snuff bottles.  We should keep this thread going and try to get to some common ground
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 04:31:07 am »

Wish I could say that I have enough bottles to even think about contributing.. Because I do not..

It is interesting that Steven started this topic though.. Because I was just telling my girlfriend last month of a desire to publish something in the future, once I have at least a solid 100 bottles that I have no intention of parting with.. The intent to publish was not for profit at all, but to aid with the inevitable selling off of these bottles after my demise.. I agree that such a publication would not be of much interest to anyone outside our small collecting community here on forum.. 

I had thought to match the number of copies published to the number of bottles within my collection.  The idea being to include a copy within each individual bottle auction description that would also go to each winning bidder.. This would aid in the family member to have exact, documented and published information for each bottle, thus with a little luck, maybe even gain a few more dollars per bottle, as well some nice provenance for the new owners of the bottles ..

Even with such a thought, I am on average nothing more than a 100/200 dollar a bottle collector.  I am not so sure that even if the opportunity came to pass that I could spend more on a bottle, that I would.. Pretty sure that I will always be a collector in the 100/200 dollar range.

Most of you here are WAY above my collecting caliber !

I am much more a hard copy book person over that of eBooks, but the idea of being able to edit a collection at any given time is certainly a huge consideration.  Especially as fast as bottles pass through my possession ! I so like very much the eBooks as an example for the ones shown on E-YAJI.COM.

So for this desired project of joint collections publication, all I can offer is complete support in regards to using the forum in any way you all see fit.. There are some obvious things we can do that will offer a real nice promotional presence on the forum in regards to hard copy publications.. I would imagine that the eBook option would be freely available to anyone though.

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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 04:51:01 am »



I want to evolve to an online interactive type ICSBS. The forum is great but it is just not visual enough and too hierarchical in structure.  Anyway.  I am NOT proposing we change this Forum or do away with it but we need a stronger joint presence in the cloud, and be THE online catalog and collector's showcase for snuff bottles.  We should keep this thread going and try to get to some common ground

On a side note, and a bit off topic... I would like to see the forum evolve into it's own entity.. Privately owned and operated server, and software.. But this could be a huge endeavor..
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 09:48:56 pm »

Thanks all the feedback and comments on my crazy thoughts on the halloween night.Smiley and I promised that I only drink a bottle of beer, not more than that.Smiley

I totally agree with all that my idea is not so practical, mainly the cost issue.

I like the ebook idea, also the online gallery, that could be the way to go. I can certainly volunteer the book layout and editing if needed. anyway, that is still a wild thoughts, no idea how it can happen.Smiley or it will never be..

Steven

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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 08:10:26 am »

Steven,

Thank you for starting the ball rolling. Hopefully we can now keep it rolling, and develop this discussion further.  Cheesy

Tom
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 07:09:48 am »

I came across this site called Vastari .. An interesting concept that connects collectors to museums globaly.

Member of the Museums Association in the United Kingdom, and also an industry ally of the American Alliance of Museums.

This may be an nice option for cataloging, and also creating provenance.. Perhaps uploding and having bottles accepted within the site, it may be a way to create provenance because of being a part of this online museum exhibition ?

Just a thought ..

 
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 06:41:54 pm »

A book is a  nice  idea, but it  would  never  work in practice,  neither  financially,  nor in  respect  of  the  guy/gal  who undertakes to   edit  and  produce  the  whole thing, on whose  shoulders  90% of the  work  would   fall, and  who has  to  accommodate   every  wish / whim of  each collector as  to  how  to describe  bottles  in a  uniform way, not to mention the  problem of  adopting and  enforcing a  standard  photographic  technique*

Sorry
Peter

*The  1,400 +  Bloch   collection  was  all  photographed  in one  place  with one   technique  by  Hugh Moss's  nephew : Nick Moss.  The  method he  used  was  very  sophisticated, and  very big !



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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 09:11:19 pm »

Peter,

I think, if you look back at some earlier posts in this thread, you will see that we came to the same consensus. There seems to be some potential for an on-line e-book, which Pat, Richard and others promulgated. I think that is definitely the way to go, whether jointly or individually.

Joey's recent post about his personal experience of the pros and cons of traditional publishing should be an eye-opener for anyone still thinking of a printed book of their collection.

Tom
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