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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 08:34:39 am
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Stunning Overlay..

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George
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« on: October 14, 2013, 07:36:14 pm »

Sometimes an overlay bottle will really grab my attention..

Just want to share this bottle presently listed on eBay. Really beautiful...





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Steven
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 08:08:13 pm »

Truly a beautiful bottle, I admire the metal work as well..

Steven
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Wattana
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 09:42:32 pm »

Nice bottle George, and unusual concept.
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 08:12:15 pm »

Sorry to burst anyone's bubbles, but this is an appliqué, NOT an overlay, glass snuff bottle.
I agree it is quite impressive, though. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 09:24:47 pm »

I had to look Applique up !

"In its broadest sense, an appliqué is a smaller ornament or device applied to another surface"

It looks more like an overlay in the sense the glass was "blobbed" on, but I can't see any hints that the ornament are glued to ( applique ) the bottle..
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 09:55:36 pm »

Joey and George,

If I may add to this 'bubble' suffused discussion...!

My understanding of the term 'Appliqué' is when a decorative element is 'applied' to the main item.

Many overlay glass snuff bottles have molten dollops of contrasting colour glass applied to the main body before being carved away to create the picture. So, strictly speaking, a large number of overlay bottles are appliqué bottles, although not described as such.

In snuff bottle parlance I would restrict the term to embellished bottles only, where the applied decoration is not FUSED to the body by heat as in this glass bottle.

Tom
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 12:30:38 pm »

George and Tom,
      Applique is used to refer to glass bottles which have already-formed glass elements  (such as the leaves and flower heads in this example) applied to the exterior of the bottle, and connected by glass 'thread' also applied (again as in this example). Also notice how the 'thread' is a different green from the leaves.
      I've had two of them, and if you look at the elements, you will see that the design does NOT cut into the background material. In a true overlay, the cutting ALWAYS extends a mm. or 2 into the background material.
      Joey
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 09:33:14 pm »

Joey,

Thanks for refining the definition.

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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 09:59:07 pm »

Joey,

The eBay pictures shown by George were taken perpendicular to the bottle. However, if you look at the top picture posted by
George, the two bigger green leaves appear to sit on a thin layer of the base material of the bottle. From my observation of the
overlay bottles I have, what you said about " 1 mn - 2 into the base material " appears to apply to the immediate layer above the
base material of the bottle. It appears to be less obviouse for the second layer.

Inn Bok
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 10:41:47 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,
     You are seeing the shadow cast by the edge of the appliqué glass pieces. If you look at your own overlay glass examples with a magnifying glass, you will see that the cutting into the colour of the top layer cuts into the bottom or background layer a mm or two. This is because it is hard to limit the cutting just to the overlaid layer.
     With the appliqué glass pieces, attached while both they and the bottle are hot, since the pieces were not carved (ground?) into the upper layer of glass on the bottle, they have not cut through to the background layer.
      I had a few of these many years ago, and once you know what to look for, it is easy to differentiate between overlay and appliqué glass snuff bottles.
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 05:08:55 am »

Joey,

Looking at the pictures George posted, if you consider the two green leaves ( one on the top right hand and the other on the left flank of the shoulder of the bottle ), it cannot be possibly shadows on both leaves. If the top right hand one has a shadow, then
the extreme left one appears to be sitting on some raised layer similar in color to the base material. That makes me think that the bottle is an overlay one.

Inn Bok
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 08:53:31 am »

Dear Inn Bok,
     You may be right, although if one uses more than one light to illuminate a bottle for photography, one can get more than one shadow.
     I know this type and have never seen an overlay with such simple elements. I have seen a number of appliqué bottles though, and they all are like this one.
     I will need to see it in my hand, and see that the carving cuts into the background material  to concede this. Sorry.
     Best, Joey
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 09:30:39 am »

Joey,

I agree with that unless we see the real staff, the picture cannot tell all .

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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 02:58:57 am »


Want to share this.. 

These appliqué glass pieces were popped off fairly easily by the owner.

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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 03:28:50 am »

Dear George,

Becoming more and more paranoid as I learn more and more about snuff bottles and antiques... 

How do we know which photos are the before or after?  Grin

X-Files-ly  (Trust no one... bottles),

David
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 03:36:16 am »


How do we know which photos are the before or after?  Grin


Dear David,

It all depends on the order in which you view the photos...   Cool

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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2015, 07:04:30 am »

Dear George,
    This is one of the nicest 'applique' glass snuff bottles I've ever seen. Why would the owner do that?
And is it possible the bottle is nephrite jade and that the 'glass appliques' were only glued on and not heated and sort of fused on?
    It is hard to believe that anyone (excepting Superman, of course  Cheesy) could just "pop off" applique glass pieces fused onto the glass body, leaving no damage or residue.
    On looking at it again (and again  Grin), I wonder if the bottle is not in fact white nephrite jade and the 'appliques' coral, green jade, etc. - ie., 'pietra dura' work. But it does not look like the bottle was cut into to take the applied pieces, whether they were glass or semi-precious stone.
    So, if they were just glued on, and not inset and glued, like the genuine examples, it was a modern copy, but it is still a pity that it was not left as it was. It was a very nice object, from the photo at least.

Perturbed,
Joey




Want to share this.. 

These appliqué glass pieces were popped off fairly easily by the owner.


« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 10:03:51 am by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2015, 09:24:47 am »

This looks like one of the bottle that appeared in one of the auction a few mths back..... It has similar decoration on the reversed side.... Some branches are missing but overall an acceptable condition...... Wanted to try for it but forgot about the auction date.....

Can't understand why would the owner want to clean off the bottle?Huh Huh

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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2015, 09:29:56 am »

I think Joey is correct. It seems to be a jade base. What a sad thing to do...
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2015, 11:26:51 am »

Dear Tom,

Quote
It all depends on the order in which you view the photos...   Cool

 Grin That was the sequence that gave me the idea (left to right).

Gleefully,
David
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