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A little script help please.. Snuff Dish

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Author Topic: A little script help please.. Snuff Dish  (Read 2127 times)
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George
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« on: October 13, 2013, 02:43:49 am »

Could someone translate the back of this dish for me please ?

« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 06:47:42 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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richy88
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 02:58:47 am »

Hi George

It reads Juren Tang (居人堂) meaning the Hall of Residence.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 07:01:04 am »

Thank you Richard...  Smiley

I found informatoin about Juren Tang and  Hongxian marked pieces via Gotheborg's website, and also examples in seal script, but not finding any other porcelain examples with the same normal/regular script shown on this dish..

Not sure what to make of that...

The following is from Gotheborg,

"Research indicates that "Juren Tang" in Zhongnanhai was the building where Yuan Shikai lived and where he had his office around 1915. Guo Baochang, an antique dealer with a good relation to the court, was appointed to arrange for imperial Hongxian wares being made in 1916. What really came out of this is still debated. One opinion is that no pieces bearing the Hongxian mark is of the period, the only possibly genuine mark of the period being "Jurentang", if any."

So, because this famille rose dish is marked Juren Tang, maybe it is a genuine 1916 ( Hongxian period ) piece ?

Here is a pic of the front of the dish..



 
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 11:00:08 am »

George,
Is it a snuff dish ?
Joey
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 03:03:26 pm »

George,
Is it a snuff dish ?
Joey

I took a spur of the moment chance with these Joey..

The porcelain one is 1 1/2" ..

I have not ever seen a porcelain dish like it, but because of the correct size, and overall appearance, I felt pretty sure that it is. Also feel pretty sure that the blue/white carved one is also a snuff dish.
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 05:07:31 pm »

How strange is this  !

After searching and searching past couple days for something similar with Juren Tang in regular script, low and behold this matching Juren Tang famille rose set with same Juren Tang in regular script pops up on eBay today ..



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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 05:21:56 pm »

George,
    That IS a snuff dish!
Congratulations,
Joey
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 05:34:13 pm »

Thank you Joey...

These are my very first dishes !

By the way... Hope your dentist is easy on you this month !  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2013, 05:41:02 pm »

If I am understanding the correctly from the above Gotheborg information, can I date this as a genuine 1916 ( Hongxian period ) piece ?
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2013, 06:41:27 pm »

Well, I just could not resist !

The same seller offered this one.. His prices for the three has just been to good to pass up..

No bottles this month, but sure feel as though got a few nice dishes !

Can someone translate the script for me..

White enamel on copper and 1 5/8", but not sure the painting itself of the Immortal Li Tiegualis ( I believe ) is enamel. I know it can't be, but reminds me of what water color would look like.





« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 06:45:56 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2013, 07:26:28 pm »

Moving this topic over here to the private area until the seller has these in the mail ..

Would rather he not stumble onto the topic..
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2013, 09:42:28 pm »

George,

The last post of your snuff dish shows the Ghost-Buster ' Zhong Kui ' and the Chinese characters
carry the meaning of ghost-busting.

Inn Bok
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2013, 09:52:52 pm »

Well what an interesting mythological charactor !

Excellent to know that the script hold the meaning of ghost busting, but can you please tell in detail exactly what the script reads ?
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 11:34:34 pm »

George,

I like the enameled copper dish better than the two porcelain ones, although I am intrigued by the possibility of them being genuine Hongxian wares.

I saw a series of small enameled copper dishes for sale in Bangkok once, each with a nicely painted scene. They were described as make-up dishes made for Chinese ladies, and reputedly came from Vietnam. Many of these small dishes were in fact used by oriental ladies to mix up their cosmetic concoctions.

But I suspect that Zhong Kui would not have found his way onto a make-up dish..........so snuff dish it is!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 12:23:54 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2013, 11:57:27 pm »

Thanks Tom..

Another kind of dish that is out there that people are trying to sell as snuff dishes, are doll house wares..

The blue and white one is not porcelain though.. It is carved overlay..

I also like the enamel on copper the best of the three.. Still not sure what to make of the paint used.. It does not look like enamel to me..
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2013, 03:56:57 am »

George,

The four Chinese characters are [ 天中避邪 ]。

The first two [ 天 ( tian ) 中 ( zhong ) ] refers to the ' Tian Zhong festival ' which falls on the Lunar
Calendar's 5th month 5th day. It is also known as the ' Dumpling festival ' when Chinese will eat
steamed glutinous rice wrapped in leaf.

The second two words [ 避 ( bi ) = avoid or rid of  ] and [ 邪 ( xie ) = demonic or unclean things ].

In old Chinese tradition, people used to hand Zhong Kui's print / painting to rid of the the demonics,
hence ' ghost-busting '.

Some tradition says that [ 避邪 ] refers to some legendary animal of a lion with wings.

Regards,

Inn Bok
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 04:02:14 am »

Inn Bok,

As always, I much enjoy reading your erudite explanation of each character's meaning in addition to the translation of the whole.

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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 03:45:08 pm »

Excellent explanation, and thank you !
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 04:56:28 am »

George,

You are welcome.

Tom ,

Thank you.

Regards,
Inn Bok
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 08:10:34 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,
     Wonderful explanation! Thank you!
Joey
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