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March 28, 2024, 07:55:00 am
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Ivory Snuff Bottle with Landscape theme

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Author Topic: Ivory Snuff Bottle with Landscape theme  (Read 2208 times)
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richy88
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 10:59:30 pm »

Hi Joey

The ivory bottle was posted by me. It was the same bottle posted earlier under the renamed Ivory Snuff Bottle with Landscape Theme thread (and as per your request) with a little addition.

There are quite a number of Chinese Moslem in northern China like in Beijing. The surname Yang (杨) is quite a common surname and can be found in southern China as well. For your information, the translation of Yang (杨) is poplar tree in English. It is usually used in names like 白杨 (aspen), 杨柳 (willow), etc. The other Yang (羊) is ram, sheep or goat in Chinese.

Regards.


Richard

Dear Richard,
   Thank you for clarifying that. Inn Bok just posted a beautiful carved ivory snuff bottle that looks like it is by Yang Runsheng.
   Yang Yongfu (YF Yang) is northern Chinese (Beijing area) and Moslem. Is Yang (Ram in translation), a name limited to Ethnic minorities in China, or also a Han Chinese surname?
Shabbat Shalom,
    Joey
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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2013, 03:54:16 am »

 Grin Grin
Whoops! Me bad!
    YF's surname is Yang (Ram). I forgot that there are 5 intonations in Beijinghua and 9 in Cantonese (Guangzhou dialect? how do you say 'Cantonese' in Pinyin?).
    Is there a way to connect a surname to an ethnicity in China? The way names like Grinberg, Silver, Friedman, Cohen, Levy etc., can be connected to  Eastern European Jews, and names ending in 'shvili' or 'nadze' are Caucasian Georgian?
   Sorry for mixing up you and Inn Bok re. the Ivory bottle. It really is stunning...
Shabbat Shalom,
 Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

richy88
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2013, 03:39:45 am »

Hi Joey

The official term for Cantonese is Yue Yu (粤语) also commonly known as "Guangong Hua" (广东话).

The Chinese has a long history and in the early ancient days, surnames are often adopted in the country/county/place that they reside. Examples include Wu (吳), Zhao (赵), Lu (鲁), etc. Some surnames originated from their professions, occupations or official titles, such as Tu (屠butcher) , Mu (牧shepherd), Sima (司马official title), Situ (司徒official title), etc.

Sometime, the Chinese changed their surname when they moved to a different part of the country and sometime the change is due to an official imperial conferment from the emperor. One such example is the famous navigator, Zheng He (郑和) whose original name was Ma Sanbao (马三保). He were given the surname of Zheng by the Ming Emperor, Yongle (明成祖永乐).

By the way, Ma is a very common surname for Moslem in northern China, Zheng He is also a Moslem and so is Ma Shaoxuan some of which originated from some minority ethnicitiy. Interestingly, my surname in Chinese is the same as Ma Shaoxuan (马) but my forefathers are from the southern part of China. In Chinese, there is saying that if you have the same surname, you are probably a family 500 years ago!

Some of you may be interested to know why the English translation of the surname Ma is different like in my case, it is translated as Baey. This is due to the different pronounciations of the word in different dialects. In my case, the Ma is translated to Baey as my dialect is Teochew (Chao Zhou).

During those days, there was no Hanyu Pinyin and the translation was up to the officer who register our names in our birth certificates. Therefore, it is quite common that members from the same family ended up having different English surnames. Take a typical example, the surname Wang (王) (as in Wang Xisan): it is Wang in Mandaring, Wong in Cantonese, Heng in Teochew and Ong in Hokkien (Fujian) dialect. So, do not be alarmed if Mr Wang introduces his father as Mr Ong and his brother as Mr Heng!

Have a great weekend!

Regards.


Richard

Grin Grin
Whoops! Me bad!
    YF's surname is Yang (Ram). I forgot that there are 5 intonations in Beijinghua and 9 in Cantonese (Guangzhou dialect? how do you say 'Cantonese' in Pinyin?).
    Is there a way to connect a surname to an ethnicity in China? The way names like Grinberg, Silver, Friedman, Cohen, Levy etc., can be connected to  Eastern European Jews, and names ending in 'shvili' or 'nadze' are Caucasian Georgian?
   Sorry for mixing up you and Inn Bok re. the Ivory bottle. It really is stunning...
Shabbat Shalom,
 Joey
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2013, 04:40:55 pm »

Richard,
     Thank you for that short but full lesson on Chinese surnames. It was facinating.
But I though 'Wong' in Hong Kong was like 'Huang' (yellow?), and not like Mandarin 'Wang' (king).
I'm confused.
Joey 
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2013, 08:45:25 pm »

Joey,

In Hong Kong where the Chinese community speaks mainly Cantonese, ' Wong ' in Cantonese could mean ' Huang ' ( yellow - which is my family name ) or ' Wang ' ( king - which Richard refers to as
Ong in the Fujian dialect ).
Among the Chinese, we look at the Chinese written character to differentiate their family name.

Inn Bok
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richy88
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2013, 11:33:04 pm »

Hi Joey

The character Wang (王) and Huang (黄) share the same pronounciation, Wong in Cantonese.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard
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Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2013, 10:21:16 am »

Thank you, Inn Bok and Richard.
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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