About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 09:28:36 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

monkey bottle

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: monkey bottle  (Read 1000 times)
0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
Ruthven
Guest
« on: April 09, 2013, 05:57:29 am »

Could anyone give some idea about this bottle?   I'm not a monkey sort of person but saw it in a thrift shop and bought it for a couple of pounds. There are no markings.  The line across it is not a crack but a painted  ground line.


Report Spam   Logged

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 4049



« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 06:46:13 am »

Dear Ruthven,
interesting bottle. How many monkeys are there? I can see four, but I think that they are indeed five as usual, although I have never seen a decoration with five monkeys. Usually they are not alone but together with other animals. At first glance I thought that your bottle could be late 19th century but by the execution of the painting, without seeing the foot, I believe that most probably it is dated around the middle of the 20th century.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Ruthven
Guest
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 08:07:44 am »

.

There are indeed 5 monkeys.  There is a smaller one leaning on the big one. 





They seem to be apes rather than monkeys as have a short/ish tail, and they also seem to have a very prounounced nose ( on the images where they acutally painted a face. so a proboscus type maybe? 

Here is the base:

Report Spam   Logged
Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11282


« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 08:49:58 am »

Actually, I thought they were Gibbons, which are very common in scholarly paintings.
   Zhang Daqian, the noted artist, collector and art forger, kept Gibbons, and painted them in his real paintings as well as some of his forgeries (like his 'Ming' Gibbon scroll at the Honolulu Museum of Art; sold by him as genuine and from his noted collection of early paintings).
 Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2340



« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 09:00:30 am »

Ruthven,

I too would speculate this is a 20th century bottle as based on the overall style and painting.

Charll
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Ruthven
Guest
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:28:55 am »

Thanks.  I guessed it wasn't old, if only due to the fact the chances of finding anything old in a thrift shop in this area would be next to zero  Grin  But at a rough guess would you think around 1960's? or later?
Report Spam   Logged
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 09:35:55 am »

I Like the bottle, specially the little monkey!

I will vote its from the first quarter of 20th or a little bit earlier based on the base rim, the bottle is not a modern copy and was not made just for decoration.

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11282


« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 02:32:24 pm »

I'm not as good as Steven at judging over the internet, but I'd also say 1911-1940, ie., Republic of China.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Ruthven
Guest
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 05:05:46 am »

Thank you,

Thats is certainly older than I thought it was.  I will call in at that shop again as she does get bottles in sometimes.  I always thought  they were modern ones, but it seems like she might get the occasional older one in too.   Smiley
Report Spam   Logged
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 10:32:27 am »

Ruthven,

You are lucky to be in Sussex, for some reason( which I don't know the background history), there is quite of chinese antiques out there, I have bought a quite a few anqitue bottles from the auction houses in Sussex, all very samll auction houses, but real stuffs, I like the flea market as well, but I hardly find any snuff bottle in the flea market in US, not even a modern bottle fake .Smiley I assume that you might find some real things in the flea market if you dig it hard.Smiley

BTW, if ever want to part with the bottle or want to trade with some inside painting bottle , please let me know. Wink

Steven

  
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11282


« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 10:47:04 am »

Steven,
   I'd say all over the UK there is a lot of Chinese treasure waiting to be found.
  Think of all the English who went to China, and even more who always bought Chinese porcelain for their homes etc. It was very 'POSH' (upper class, fancy).
  You'd not believe the amount of good and even great Chinese ceramics and art here. Crap too, but a lot of top quality.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 6133



« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 11:17:53 pm »

Joey,
    I'd agree with that. There is also a long-standing appreciation of 'old things' in the UK (often without any scholarship), so items tend to be looked after and handed down from one generation to the next, either directly or via a circuit of small auction rooms and flea markets. (The circuit is only broken when savvy Chinese online collectors from Texas enter the market  Grin
    Judging from some of Giovanni's comments, the same is probably true for parts of Italy. 
Report Spam   Logged

Collecting since 1971

Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 11:43:00 pm »

Joey,
    I'd agree with that. There is also a long-standing appreciation of 'old things' in the UK (often without any scholarship), so items tend to be looked after and handed down from one generation to the next, either directly or via a circuit of small auction rooms and flea markets. (The circuit is only broken when savvy Chinese online collectors from Texas enter the market  Grin
    Judging from some of Giovanni's comments, the same is probably true for parts of Italy. 

Dear Tom L,

Not sure if I can meet that guy in Texas. Wink

Seriously, we can't own the those old things forever, they can last much longer than us, we only own them in a very short period, and pass them to other hands,and the circuit is still going, maybe one day,they will go back to UK, or go back to where they were made which is also the circuit started. that is how the history was recorded.

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 6133



« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2013, 12:16:18 am »

Steven,

You are now promoted to "Private Investigator AND Philosopher"!
Of course, you are quite correct - we, and the things we collect, are all part of one continuous circuit.
Report Spam   Logged

Collecting since 1971

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11282


« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2013, 06:37:37 pm »

Steven,
   The term I was taught to use for someone who looks after an object for a shorter or longer while, and then passes it on, is a steward.
   I see us as stewards of our artworks, protecting them, enjoying them, then passing them along to the next stewards.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 07:27:31 pm »

Thanks Joey,

I sure will remember that.Smiley
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11282


« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 05:13:23 pm »

Yes, but Steven,
   Remember, when you do pass it on to the next 'steward', there is nothing that says you can't profit from your talent in finding beautiful art works at reasonable prices.
  So you sell at market value, so your family can enjoy the fruits of your hard work in finding beautiful items.  
  Best,
 Shabbat Shalom,
     Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal