Message #1051

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hello  again All,

I want to  keep this  thread  alive, as  I am  sure   does  Bill.

Consider the   amount  of  work that  Bill   put into  his  website  www.snuffbottlecollector.com , not the mention the   25  years  he  has been  collecting  ( and Bill  does  not even  speak  Chinese  , nor has he  any reason to  go to China  except to  meet  artists  :  now  THERE's a  labor  of  love  !)

If  you  have been following this  Forum  you  will have seen a lot  of  postings on  one  thread  about  faked  photo-printed bottles.  Do not be   worried  !   This  is an anomoly and   very  much the   exception , and there  is  now  enough  information  on the  relevant  thread to   know  how to spot   such  fake bottles.

I was  once   taken  in by this  scam,  but the  bottle  I bought  was never part of my  collection . It was  just   what appeared to me as a rather   pretty  ( and  pretty  cheap)  bottle  that  I might one day give away as a present  to a  non-collector  friend

But it  does   highlight  the  need  for  provenance ! .  

Anthing  you  buy  sight  unseen  from e-bay  or  an auction  house  is  potentially suspect.   That    certianly does  not mean  all such bottles  ( especially from reputable  auction houses)  are  fakes.  But  certainly a  large  number  are fakes.

My guess is that  professional   dealers , especially in the  USA,  attend  all the   major   bottle  auctions  and  assess at first  hand / visually / with immense  experience   what  is  real and  what is  fake.   Then  they  bid only for those  bottles  that  are    genuine, and  full  marks  to them  if  they  pick them  up for a  song and   later  re-sell them  at a  much higher  price.  That pays  for  their  air- fares  and hotel  costs  to   attend the   actual  auction  and   also the  mistakes  they may make. That's   normal  antique  business, and  long may it   flourish, because  hidden away  in    great  grand-fathers's collection of  memorobilia  from his   trips to China  in the    1920's are  certianly some  gems.  Recently  a   very  rare  Chinese  vase was  found in someone's  attic in the UK    and it  sold  for  close  to  USD 100  Million !

But that  does not help  new collectors , especially  those  collectors  who want to  buy  good  quality bottles  by modern  up-coming   artists . And  please  bear in mind that  the  rate of  progress of the modern  School is  such that    bottles  painted  today  are  usually    several   quantum  levels  better  in skill  and beauty than  bottles  painted as  recently  as   5  - 10  years  ago  .  That  does  not mean that  they are  worth  5 -10  times  as  much as  older  bottles, because  inevitably  any  bottle  by any currently-recognized   "master  artist" , no matter how  good/ bad the   work, atttacts  a  premium price   just because the  artist  is now  famous.  But that's always been  the case  in the art  world.

There  are  some   hideous  canvas  paintings  by modern  Chinese  artists  that  I would  not   hang  in my home  even if  you  paid  me , but the  "art"  world  has    "discovered" them  ( maybe  because  they are  so hideous !)   and their  paintings   are now  worth  US$  many Millions

If you  are  very  VERY  clever and/or   VERY  lucky you  may buy an inside-painted  bottle  by an IPB   artist  who    50 -  70  years  later  is  recognized  as   the   IPB  "Picasso".  But  so  what?  By then you  will be long dead.  

In  the  meantime  do you  want to  build a  collection  which you love  and  enjoy   looking at every  day   regardless  of  investment  value?  That's   why I have  built  my  collection .  And that's the  only reason I collect. I  don't  care what my  collection is  worth  because  I will never sell  it.  And , I  am sure , Bill thinks the   same  about  his  collection, which is   why, when  I  finally  photograph my  collection of  Chinese  landscape  bottles,  it  will   simply  go on to Bill's  site  ( with his  permission  and without  any  fanfare) as  a  new  theme   and  as  just another  genre  of the  Modern School  which this one  particular - and  maybe  somewhat  crazy - collector  is  madly  in  love with , just as  I am madly   and  also  somewhat  crazily  in love  with my wife - who is   equally  unique,and to  my eyes  totally   beautiful in person and  in spirit.  Full  stop.   ( Punkt  !   as the  Germans  say)

So what  does  that  mean  for   new  collectors?

Here  are some   suggestions :

1.  Decide what themes  you like (  cats. dogs,   spiders?! ,   portraits, landscapes,  waterfalls ..... whatever)

2.  Do  a  LOT  of  due  diligence  and  research on  what current  and  past  artists  paint the  themes  you like

    With the  internet and  this  Forum  you  have   far  more   resources  than  were  ever  available   as  recently
    as  5  years  ago.   I will not tell  you  where  to  look  because  if  you    are so lazy as to ask  me  you  don't  deserve
    to be a  real  collector.  Just get on line  and GOOGLE !  

3.  Locate  those  artists  whose  work you  like  and make  personal  contact.   That  may  seem  an insuperable  barrier  if
     you   live  in USA and  have never   even  been to  China  (let alone  speak  Chinese) .  

    ( Ever  tried  Google  Languge  Tools? They  do actually include  Chinese )

     But  asking a  few   questions  from  other collectors  (like me and  Bill)  will give  you  artists' email  addresses

4. Contact  reputable   dealers   who can   help  you.  There  are  such  dealers ,  some of  which are  based  in China,
   and  some  of  which are even members  of the  International  Chinese  Snuff Bottle Society , so they are  very  
   reputable.  These  dealers  buy only  from  artists   directly . No middle-men.

   Yes,  such  dealers   take a  commission on anything they  sell.  But I would  much  rather  pay a  dealer  a  commission
   than  take my chances   on e-bay  !  

4. (And this  is  my main point)   Be  willing to  pay  for   quality

   The Chinese  have  two sayings  about this, which I often  quote to my   company's customers in China, bearing  in mind
   that   what  we  sell  is  truly the  "Rolls  Royce"   in our  market* ( I  could    say   " Bentley"  which  is even  more  
   exclusive than   Rolls  Royce , but that  would be  pretentious, given  my name  - but  no relation  to the  car  company)

   a)  " Yi fen  qian -  yi fen huo "  =  "If  you pay  more ... you  get more" !

   b) " Pianyi bu  hao huo . Hao huo  bu  pianyi " =  "Cheap  is  rubbish.  Good  quality  is  not  cheap"

   Certainly there  are  some  real bargains  if  you can  spot an  up-coming    new  talented  inside -painted  bottle  artist
   before  he  is  widely recognized , which is  often the  period  in which  he  is  most  creative  ( as with all art) .

   But  even more  certainly  :  you  will  NEVER   find  his   works  on e-bay  or   auctions  because there's no possible
   way  they  could  have got  there  so fast , not even as  fakes

I think  I have  said  enough. If you  are  a   serious   collector  of the Modern Inside- Painted School   you  will  have  (  or soon will have)  done  your   due  diligence   and spent  hours  ( days, weeks ...  !)   downloading  pics  of bottles  from the  internet.  That's  what I did  when I got  SERIOUS.

From then  on it's  downhill  running.......... There's a  bunch of  collectors  like   Bill, me, and    several others   who  would  be  delighted  to  put  you in touch  with   reputable dealers  and  even  the  artists  themselves.  

Cheers  Peter  @  Hong Kong

PS :  Disclaimer  : I  have  never, nor will ever,  have  any financial  interest  in any  dealer's  business. But I  will  recommend  dealers  whom I know  to be  reputable, honest  and  reliable .

PPS:  * What does  my company sell  in China?  Vacuum  leak  detectors which are  used  to   check the   quality  of refrigerators and   airconditioners,   of which  about   60%  of the   world's  production  is  now in China.
 Our   market share   world wide  is  90%  and  in China  98%  .  

" Yi fen   qian -  yi fen  huo "

" Hao huo  bu  pianyi ! "