About This Forum

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 03:35:59 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Rose Quartz - Is this a snuff bottle

Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
Author Topic: Rose Quartz - Is this a snuff bottle  (Read 3226 times)
0 Members and 16 Guests are viewing this topic.
kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2012, 02:43:49 pm »

Hi Charll,
Thanks for taking the time to look at my jade. Do you agree that is worth enough for me to go to the extent of taking it to a professional?
BTW all - do you know of a different forum for jade? I don't want to this forum by conversing about something that might now have any interest to anyone else  Wink
Kristi
Report Spam   Logged
Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11283


« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2012, 03:58:53 pm »

That's good, Charll. You are a lot more practical than me. Also, I'm used to being within an hour flight max. of a serious auction house (sometimes, less than an hour drive). I don't know where Kristi is located.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2012, 04:21:06 pm »

All - I live about an hour and a half from either San Diego or Los Angeles.
 Smiley
Kristi
Report Spam   Logged
Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 6133



« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2012, 09:56:54 pm »

Hi Kristi,

I totally agree with the advice Joey has given you for your jade pieces. It is well worth your while to spend time doing some leg-work, or you may get seriously undersold. When you do walk into a saleroom or shop for an appraisal, act as though you KNOW they are valuable pieces. Don't pull them out of a plastic bag!

Coming back to your rose quartz snuff bottle, it may sound like I gave you a conflicting assessment. What Joey says is correct in terms of the hollowing often being limited so as to avoid weakening the rich colour. Generally on 19th century bottles with limited internal hollowing it will still follow the profile of the exterior shape. In other words, the carver will strive to create a bottle with more or less equal wall thickness throughout, even if those walls remain quite thick. Carefully examine the interior to check if the hollowing extends into the sides, and by how much. Judging from your photos (and these are not clear, so I may be wrong) the hollowing is limited to a straight bore, rather like when you core an apple.  If it is a straight core then I would still date the bottle to mid-20th century.

The long-tailed bird is a phoenix, as Joey stated. The bird on the other side appears to be a magpie with prunus blossom. This combination (magpie & prunus) expresses a wish for a double dose of happiness and joy, since both the early spring blossoms and magpies are auspicious signs of impending good news. If two magpies are shown together, that would signify marital bliss - a suitable wedding gift!

Tom 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 09:59:30 pm by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

Collecting since 1971

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11283


« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 06:49:03 am »

Tom,
   Isn't it interesting how we can look at the same photo and see different things?!
   I agree with everything you wrote, but one: I saw the hollowing as following the basic bottle shape, but leaving a thick wall, to show off the wonderful colour of the stone. Definitely NOT core-drilled, IMHO.
If I'd seen it as core-drilled, I'd have given exactly the opinion you gave.

   Kristi, if you position a strong flashlight on a counter at more or less eye level, and put the bottle in front of it, does the hollowing look like a straight core drilling (ie. someone used a drill and ran a straight core down, without widening the area of the drilling at all, or almost not?), or as if it follows the exterior contour of the bottle, but with a thick wall?
  If the first, Tom is correct; if the second, I'm correct.

   By the way, go to LA. It is a much more important city for Asian Arts than San Diego, with larger Auction houses.
I know Sotheby's, Christie's, and Bonham's have offices and premises there.
   Sotheby's, 9200 Sunset Blvd., LA   tel 310 274 0340
  Christie's, 9601 Wilshire Blvd., Beverly Hills 90210  tel 310 385 2600
  Bonham's, 7601 W.Sunset Blvd., LA 90046   tel 323 850 7500
 Also, Clare Chu, who owns Asian Art Studio, 1759 Beloit Ave., # 612, West LA 90025 (nr. Rte 405), tel 310 477 8316
will be happy to look at your bottle, and can probably advise you re. the jades. Did your family leave you any other Asian art objects?
The quality of what you've posted appears to be high. It would be self-defeating, to say the least, if you didn't make the effort to get the highest price you can for your objects. Your grandparents would want you to profit from their gifts to you; not someone else because you didn't invest the time needed to achieve the best result.
  And take the snuff bottle as well.
  The advantage to an auction sale is, if two people get into a bidding war over an object, it can go much higher than anyone had dreamed. I bought a very rare jade snuff bottle with a genuine Imperial mark and  mid-18th C. dating. It was estimated at US$ 7,500-15,000. I bought it for US$55,000. The lady who'd owned it almost fainted.
   The disadvantages  of an auction are : 1. that you'd have to wait months to get your money 2.It might not sell. It's a gamble.
   If you sell to a collector or a dealer, you should get your funds immediately, but you will get less.
  Take your things FIRST to at least two, if not all three, of the auction houses, and have them give you an estimate of the value of each object. WRITE IT DOWN. I can not stress this enough. From personal experience.
   Then, after you've had all your things appraised, by experts at  two or three auction houses (and don't volunteer info, other than that they are family heirlooms, and you might have more you'd be willing to part with; it is fine to say that you've just shown them to Christie's and Sotheby's (if you at Bonham's , etc.)). How much they appraised things at, IS NOT. Keep that to yourself.
   Then, go to Clare (call first to all places to make an appointment, and be on time; it looks more serious, and you want to be treated seriously). Dress comfortably but nicely. These are NOT the places for tank tops, flipflops, and bra-less. Though if you get the few appraisers who are straight, the last might not be a bad idea.
   Naw, stick to my prior advice; your chances of getting a straight male appraiser are slim. Trust me on that too; I've dated all the cute ones, and been polite to the others  Wink.
   Politeness and a smile work well, but don't take any sh-t from the snooty girls at the entrance; they are poorly paid and get their kicks trying to treat others badly, while trying to snag a rich husband. Most of them don't, which shows that G-D Is Good.
   If you have more stuff, and some is potentially very valuable and better at auction, and you can get the funds you need right this moment, hold back the more valuable stuff, and thoughtfully figure out what to do, so as to help yourself long-term as well as short-term.
   You need rent etc., now, but you'll need it again tomorrow. Try to sell the cheapest stuff that will get you out of the hole immediately, and hold in reserve what may help you put yourself on a better economic footing.
  I'm sorry if this seems preachy, but I get the feeling that you've not got someone to help you, and you could use the help. Feel free to use whatever info will help you, and disregard any that you don't feel will help.
Good Luck, and please let us know how you do.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pat - 查尚杰
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3461


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2012, 07:08:03 am »

Joey

Just want to tell you what a class act you are going through all this detail to help Kristi.  And the tongie-in-cheek comments are an extra to the rest of us.  Have a great holiday season....

Kristi

Good luck! And happy holidays to you too!
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11283


« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2012, 07:22:57 am »

Dear Pat,
   Thank you. From you this means a lot.
And a happy holiday season to you and everyone else on the Forum.
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2012, 12:09:34 pm »

Joey,

I completely agree with Pat. You have been way above and beyond in your help to me and you are right, I don't have anyone else to help me. I don't find your message the least bit "preachy" - just incredibly helpful and informative. I appreciate the humor too - who couldn't use a good laugh  Cheesy Including the addresses and phone numbers in your post was so courteous and considerate. To be candid, I have a bit of agoraphobia about places of business I have never been to and having you pass along this information, with an air of familiarity, makes it seem much less daunting. And you are also right about  the carving. It doesn't just go straight down. I would say that the widest part of the hole is twice that of the width of the lip. I am uploading a photo I just took to show the shape of the hollow. I messed around with the lighting and contrast, in Photoshop, to emphasize the shape of the hollowed out area. If you look at the area just below the lip you can see how the hollow flares out just past the neck.

Robert Hall has said that he will be in NY in January and he wants me to Fedex the bottle to him there so he can see it and decide if he wants it. If he does he will send me a check. After everything you all have shared with me, I'm guessing that this is not the way to go, at least not until I've followed your advice about going to LA.

No amount of detail or advice you can give will be too much. Believe it or not, even the post that said "don't just pull it out of a plastic bag" was helpful  Wink

Warmest regards,
Kristi



* rose quartz bottle hollowing.jpg (952.16 KB, 1109x1489 - viewed 25 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2340



« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2012, 02:01:20 pm »

Kristi, given your location it is hard to add to the insight and contacts that Joey has presented.  The only thing I could add is that another contact for an opinion on the quality of what you have is a Dealer in Old Chinatown in LA, Bob Lee.  If you contact him and explain the options for the disposal of the items, he might be willing to give you some insight on what to take where.

Charll
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11283


« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2012, 02:17:31 pm »

Kristi,
   We are a 'full-service' Forum!  Wink Grin
   Seriously, As a snuff bottle collector of almost 43 years (in mid-Feb.!), I was mentored and advised and helped and even protected, by other, older collectors. I had written Jose from Barcelona about my dear friends Carlos & Mercedes Soler.
    In Nov.1980, I flew from Tel Aviv to London with 34 bottles I'd weeded out of my collection, in an effort to upgrade the quality of the collection as a whole. I DIDN'T check out 2 or 3 auctions. I went straight to one where I knew the Chinese Dept. They ended up sending 32 bottles, in two lots of 16, to a furniture auction in Torquay (on the south England coast), and, while having contracted to offer them with a UKL 1,000 reserve (value of US$2,250 in Nov.; had dropped to US$1,500 by July 1981, when I went to London for another auction) on each lot of 16, but actually received UKL 100 each!
Carlos and Mercedes ordered the man at Sotheby's to make it 'right'. And I got my reserve prices, and they waived the charges too. Which was nice, but I'd gotten screwed by the exchange rate. You win some, you lose some. Wink
   I have many similar stories. As people helped me, I want to pass it on and help others. That is part of the 'magic' of collecting snuff bottles. As a rule, collectors help each other.
SHOOT! Charll, you are right! I totally forgot about Bob Lee. And he buys and sells both snuff bottles AND Jade jewelry.
Just be cautious; Bob can be a hard bargainer.
Jin Hing Co., 412 Bamboo Lane, LA 90012  tel. 213 628 8439
 Again, FIRST the Auctions, to get estimates from a few auctions, to give you a ballpark value; then to the dealers, to see about an immediate cash sale to help you deal with short term cash flow problems. I personally feel Clare is more forthcoming, but you never know. The trick is, on one hand, to know the value of what you've got, but on the other hand, to realise that they need to earn their living as well.
  Be Well,
Joey
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 02:43:09 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2012, 09:24:55 pm »

Hi all,
didn't want you to think that I was blowing you off. I still haven't made the calls. I am so grateful for all the guidance. Things have been a little crazy with me so it looks like I'll have to wait until after Christmas now. On Tuesday night my husband gave me back his wedding ring... kind of took all the air out of my sails. But rest assured I will follow through on this and let you all know what happens.
Kristi
Report Spam   Logged
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2012, 09:46:38 pm »

Hi kristi,

Things will be better soon! just do whatever you need to do at meantime.

God blessed and wish you have Merry Christmas!!

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11350


Test


WWW
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2012, 08:39:32 am »

Kristi..

Like Steven said.. Things will get better..

Have a nice Christams !
Report Spam   Logged

"Experience Each Experience To The Fullest To Obtain The Most Growth"

Snuff Bottle Journal
kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2012, 09:33:02 am »

Thank you all - and a blessed Christmas and Happy Holidays to you.

 Cheesy
Report Spam   Logged
Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 4049



« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2012, 09:59:07 am »

Dear Kristi,
so sorry to hear that. Whish you a much better time in the next year!
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 11283


« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:26 am »

 Kristi,
   I wasn't sure why your husband had given back his wedding ring, but from the context of the others' responses, it is not good.
   I'm sorry, and pray that things will get better for you very soon. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.  At this time, try to be with family and friends who will be supportive to you.
   My family's housekeeper, from St. Kitts in the West Indies, always used to say that G-D didn't close a door without opening a window.
G-D Bless you and Keep you,
 Shabbat Shalom,
  Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2012, 10:52:34 pm »

Hi all,
I hope you had a wonderful Christmas (or Hanukkah, etc.) I want to give you an update. The departure date for my pending move to Washington has been moved up. I will be leaving on January 3. I'm afraid that won't give me time to research my bottle (and jade) as I was planning. I guess I will send it to Robert Hall to look at and see what he offers. If it isn't a good offer I will just hold on to it for now.
I am very happy to be leaving the Southern California area since it is full of sad reminders of my husband's on-going affair with a woman he met on Facebook. (I hear that that kind of things happens more than one would think). Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. You feel like good friends even after such brief acquaintance.  Smiley I'll check back in once in a while, and I'll definitely let you know if I sell. In the meantime let me wish you a very Happy New Year.
Warmest regards, Kristi
Report Spam   Logged
Steven
Global Moderator / Forum Detective
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4101



« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2012, 11:17:21 pm »

Thank you for your updates! Kristi,

I don't know what to say, but wish you have a brand new new year, new home, new life....

Don't look back, always look forward, come back to see us even you don't do any research on snuff bottle anymore. Grin

Steven

Report Spam   Logged

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 6133



« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2012, 11:31:33 pm »

Hi Kristi,
    Thanks for your news update.  I wish you all the BEST for the New Year. Sounds like this year hasn't been too kind to you, which means things can only get better in 2013.......and they will. As Steven says, keep looking forward. 
    Good luck with the rose quartz bottle and Robert Hall. Meanwhile, hold out on those jade pieces until you get a chance to follow Joey's advice.
Tom
   
PS: Is that Washington State, or DC? I'm sure one of us can advise of local auctioneers / reputable dealers in either location.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 11:45:00 pm by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

Collecting since 1971

kristidedic@yahoo.com
Guest
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2012, 08:54:03 am »

It's Redmond, Washington - Home of Microsoft. The great news about it is that I will be sharing a place with my 2 adult children! We have always been very close (emotionally) and it will be great to live together for a while.  Cheesy
(Redmond is half an hour from Seattle) My son, Josh, has been working for a software company in Kansas for about 6 years and it was recently purchased by Microsoft. They are transferring him to Redmond, which is a wonderful opportunity for him. Microsoft treats their employees well. My daughter, Amanda, and I are hoping to get work with them as well.
Amanda used to have all kinds of "online friends". I never really understood how they seemed so important to her. Now I get it. You guys truly are awesome!
Any info you all can give me on Seattle would be much appreciated.
If anyone wants to communicate outside of the forum - kristidedic@yahoo.com
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal