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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 29, 2024, 07:00:40 am
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WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS PORCELAIN BOTTLE WITH RED SEAL?

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Author Topic: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS PORCELAIN BOTTLE WITH RED SEAL?  (Read 766 times)
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guest223
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« on: January 12, 2013, 11:37:32 am »

I HAVE THIS PORCELAIN BOTTLE WITH A RED SEAL AND MARK ...COMMON? JUST ASKING? THANKS AGAIN FOR HELPING ME IDENTIFY MY LITTLE COLLECTION....D....ALMOST FINISHED


* fish seal.jpg (139.8 KB, 480x640 - viewed 36 times.)

* 049.JPG (133.27 KB, 480x640 - viewed 24 times.)

* seal.jpg (158.66 KB, 640x480 - viewed 25 times.)

* 025.JPG (156.18 KB, 640x480 - viewed 31 times.)
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Steven
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 12:04:45 pm »

Hi Dennis,

That is a Qianlong mark bottle, but well possibly dated later 19th-early 20th.
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 01:17:51 pm »

Dennis,
   The red seal on the side was put on the bottle by clerks of the PRC, to document that it was antique but no earlier than 1820, and thus allowed out of China.
  I agree with Steven, re.dating.
Joey
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Tom B.
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 04:39:52 pm »

Agree with Steven and Joey on this one; probably about the same time that inside painted artists were painting fish 'swimming' inside their bottles.

As Joey wrote, the red mark on the side is a 'jian ding' wax seal or "Export approval mark" from the Officials in a particular Cultural Relics Bureau in the People's Republic of China.  Each office uses a different seal which can identify the particular office that put it on.   From 1949 - 1986 they used red ink stamps, that have mostly been washed off by now.  Some people think that these seals are a"guarantee" that the item is an antique over 100 years old.  That was probably true in the beggining, but now it actually stands for items less than 100 years old and is often put on anything that isn't brand new.  There are even clever sales people who made a fantasy seal that reads "WEN". If it looks somewhat familar that is because it is the word "NEW" backwards.

Best regards,

Tom B. 
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Best regards,

Tom B.

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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 07:20:26 pm »

I think this is my favorite out of the bottles of yours that you have shared so far..
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 12:35:07 pm »

I agree George. It is pretty. I'd guess 1880-1920.
Joey
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guest223
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 08:51:44 pm »

THANK YOU ALL FOR COMMENTS ....AND TIME TO LOOK.....D
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 11:21:46 pm »


  There are even clever sales people who made a fantasy seal that reads "WEN". If it looks somewhat familar that is because it is the word "NEW" backwards.
 

Thanks Tom B.,

Very amusing. Good to see they had a sense of humor.
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 10:48:40 am »

Dear Tom,

I guess that sometimes I am just a grumpy old man, but I actually love a good laugh.  I guess that I should thank Giovanni for his Euro English joke, I actually did LOL (laught out loud) on that one.  Smiley

Best regards,

Ton B.

P. S. - The WEN = NEW seal exists and was probably used to smuggle an authentic Song Dynasty qingbai glazed bowl out of China.


* 13.01.14 Wen.jpg (87.71 KB, 550x1436 - viewed 20 times.)
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Tom B.

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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 11:02:01 am »

Tom B.,
   Why wouldn't they just buy a really cheap object with a genuine seal on a piece of cloth tape on the object, as many of them do; remove the tape and stick it on another object, and throw or give away the cheap object.  That is what I would theoretically have done in 1996, if I had then found an 18th C. bottle without a seal, and wanted to take it out of the PRC without hassle. Not that I'm saying I did, you understand.  Wink Grin
Joey
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 11:15:12 pm »

Joey,
    And to whom might you have given the 'cheap object'.......theoretically speaking?  Grin  Grin
Tom
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 05:04:22 pm »

A tourist I met on Liulichang Rd. in Beijing, theoretically. Cheesy Grin
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 09:38:25 pm »

I think I might know him.  Wink
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Collecting since 1971

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