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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


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March 29, 2024, 12:32:02 am
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Yan Yutian IP bottle

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Steven
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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2015, 10:38:40 pm »

Dear David.

I am not sure if I fully understand your question.

Normally internal surface of the glass bottle needs to be rough out before painting, otherwise the painting won't stick on well. People put the iron sand or emery sand mixed with water into the bottle and fully stir it to rough the internal surface, so the paint can stick well also the artist can have better control of the painting.

But that is a new technique , I can  only guess it only be applied on bottles during middle to later middle period. that is why we can see the earlier glass bottle don't have rough internal surface, and more transparent than the newer bottles. For the old painters, we still can see some early to middle period bottles with very simple painting, but most of the painting were peeled off because of the smooth internal surface. Then in the middle period, the painters mix the glue with the paint, so that the paint can stick better, but still need more techniques to control the painting.

Go back to YT's bottle,  we can't see the painting well only because the glass is not so transparent, if the glass is not transparent( since the bottle was made to imitate the agate), how can the artist paint the bottle so well without seeing what he or she has is painting? I have seen a quite a lot similar bottles, most of the paintings are not exciting. I assume those bottles were painted in 30s-50s.

Steven
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2015, 01:00:45 am »

Giovanni's bottle must be a early WXS bottle when he is still painting with the bamboo stick rather than a brush...
Very nice bottle !!!

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2015, 01:02:42 am »

Dear Steven,

Thank you for the answers, especially regarding painting inside more opaque bottles where the painting is not possible to see without light. I was always wondering about those, ruining the utility for storage while not even able to see clearly what was painted.


I meant YT's bottle on reply #17, the one where you loaded the picture for him. The one where the area around the name is damaged. I was wondering if the damage is due to an incorrectly prepared internal surface? (Kind of hoping that no one will actually try to clean an internal painted bottle of a collectable painter)

I have 4 other inside painted bottles that I think are not photo enhanced (lithographed) or glued with a photograph or obvious low level tourist/student. One of them sparkles a lot, while the other just a little. Is this sparkling the sign of roughing out?

Gratefully,
David




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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2015, 01:09:46 am »

Dear Steven,

Sorry, I just noticed that the photo you helped YT with was August of last year.

 Wink Grin What happened to your photographic memory? ... just kidding.

Kindly,
David
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2015, 02:09:14 am »

Dear Pin,
you are right. I remember that when I proposed the bottle to Bonhams they said that it was an earlier example from this artist.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2015, 02:12:00 am »


....especially regarding painting inside more opaque bottles where the painting is not possible to see without light. I was always wondering about those, ruining the utility for storage while not even able to see clearly what was painted.


David,

You've hit the nail on the head, by capturing in a few words why I (and I think several others) don't find inside painted agate bottles attractive.

Thank you!

Tom
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2015, 11:16:15 am »

Dear Tom and YT,

I see that now... is that why some people purchase these kind of stone interior painted bottles and then wash off the paint? The bottle itself might be a honest old bottle embellished by people in more recent time.

Has anyone on this forum tried that? I am curious if all the paint will come off, or will residual be left between the fissures/crack/pits.

Warm Regards,
David
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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2015, 09:04:02 pm »

Dear David,

I have never tried that myself, but I believe one or two others on the forum have.

Tom
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2015, 10:27:38 pm »

Hi David,

I actually did once on a middle period bottle, its not easy as I thought it would be.

I even dip the whole bottle in the water for a couple of days before trying to wash the painting off, it still have quite few paint residual visible after brushing a few times. I might try wash it with sand next time, it might have a better result.

Steven
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2015, 11:51:30 pm »

My best results were with boiling water first. Let it sit for a while then try again once or twice. The remainder of paint traces were removed with a q-tip dipped in nail polish remover (while the bottle still wet inside ). Then rinse and let air dry
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Pat
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2015, 11:52:43 pm »

Dear David,

I have not tried removing painting before but I did see a nicely carved crystal that has bad drawing. Did not buy it though.

Cheers,
YT
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2015, 01:08:01 am »

Dear Tom, Steven, Pat and Yt,

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, especially the tip with the Q tip with polish remover from Pat. I will remember that if I come across a good bottle with modern painting down the road.

Kind Regards,
David
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David

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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2015, 02:25:07 am »

My best results were with boiling water first. Let it sit for a while then try again once or twice. The remainder of paint traces were removed with a q-tip dipped in nail polish remover (while the bottle still wet inside ). Then rinse and let air dry

Like Steven, My trials were not easy..  I will remember this technique Pat.. !
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2015, 11:55:48 am »

Hello Pat and George,

Just to clarify, the soaking in hot water, that is only for agates or stones with no obvious fissures or cracks, correct?

And do you first put the stone in room temperature water and then slowly add hot water to it. So that you do not cause too much stress to the material?


Hi Steven,

You might want to be careful with using sand, just incase if the residue left over is glue or if there are minute cracks/fissure for the sand particles to get stuck on/in.

Aside from what Pat suggested, I was also thinking of using a piece of fresh bamboo or wood (that is not too dry) with a rough fibrous end for scraping.

Best Regards,
David
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« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2015, 07:52:24 pm »

David

Just for hard stone only.  I wouldnt use it on bottles with obvious cracks or fissures.  For glass I would not use the hot water.
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Pat
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« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2015, 09:51:47 pm »

Hello Pat,

Thank you, I will keep this technique in mind.

Best Regards,
David
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« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2023, 11:20:15 pm »


All, adding another Yan Yutian to this thread.  Recently acquired for less than $200 USD.

Interior Painted Glass Snuff Bottle:                        Artist: Yan Yutian
Middle Period bottle, of rectangular, faceted form with a cylindrical neck, supported on a rectangular foot ring.  The four panel bottle finely painted depicting a seated scholar near a pavilion in a mountainous landscape scene signed Yan Yutian, and a fisherman below a mountainous cliff with a pavilion, as well as prunus tree branches on one side and the other with a grasshopper perched atop a branch.  Yan Yutian lived and painted in the same Chongwen district of Beijing as the Ye family (Moss). 
Stopper is a red glass cabochon, no spoon.  Diameter neck 22 mm and mouth 7 mm.  Height is 8.2 cm, 3.8 cm in width, and 2.8 cm in depth. 

Period: ca. 1895 -1918.

Condition: Very good condition with minor nibbling of the faceted edges and small manufacturing irregularities.

Provenance:  Galerie Zacke, Asian Art Discoveries – Day 1, 29 June 2023, Lot 0471.
                      Hungarian private collection

Similar Reference:  Link:  https://www.deco-interiors.com/621432/yan-yutian-signed-chinese-inside-painted-glass-snuff-bottle-in-square-form-early-c20th/  Link: https://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/3461B/lots/22.  Similar bottle at   https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/objets-dart-vertu/models-miniatures/antique-chinese-inside-painted-glass-snuff-bottle-yan-yutian-republic-20c-ipsb/id-j_19948172/#skuId=j_19948172S1

Follow-up Info: Yan Yutian was one of the most well-known artists of the Beijing Middle School period c. 1880-1920 and occasionally signed his works in the name of the master of the school, Zhou Leyuan.  As the styles of the two artists are radically different there was no intent to deceive, and such a signing is in the tradition of Chinese painting where a pupil would often sign his master's name as a sign of respect.

Charll


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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2023, 12:09:55 pm »

Love the bottle and a bargain price Charll.
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« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2023, 04:37:38 pm »

Charll,

  The bottle is a very nice example, and the price is
Very Good.
Or Yan Yutian prices are dropping drastically!  Cool Roll Eyes Shocked Cheesy

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2023, 03:21:44 am »

Charll,

Congratulations!
In today's marketplace, I'm amazed that there are still bargains to be had by the vigilant.

Tom
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