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Porcelain bottle, dating test

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Steven
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« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2012, 10:10:34 am »

Hi Giovanni,

Thank you for sharing the knowledge of Qianjiang style, to be honest, that is the first time I heard of it, what I know is Eight friends in Zhu shan, Their style looks very similar with Qianjiang style you were talking bout.

I don't know if there are painted by same group of people, I know 王大凡(wang dafang), my dad used have a pot form him , also毕伯涛( bi botao), 汪野亭( wang ye xing) , not sure it rings a bell for you.

Attached please find one from Xu tianmei.


Steven


* f592167ad24f2074762dc3eac9306cf6.jpg (67.79 KB, 483x479 - viewed 31 times.)
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2012, 10:51:57 am »

Steven,
  I thought you were the one corresponding with Tom from FL, on Qiangjiang ware. If not you, who was it?
Pat? Are you the one with a collection of Qiangjiang ware?
I know Tom showed us stuff a few months ago (it feels like YEARS ago! I must be on the Forum too much!).
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2012, 04:07:01 pm »

Dear Steven,
that of Qianjiang style on porcelain, also said by someone "literati school of porcelain painting" is, for what I understand, a matter not well defined and source of debate. The Eight friends of Zhushan movement is part of this school, or better they come late during the course of Qianjiang style painting on porcelain. Here is a link to another page of Koh site, where he talks about both qianjang and the Eight Friends of Zhushan:
http://koh-antique.com/history/historyrepublican.htm
BTW, just because the beginning of Qianjiang style is not exactly clear and so the earlier pieces too are not so well defined, today I did write to Mr. Koh with whom I have already had contacts in the past, asking if the bottle should be considered Qianjiang in his opinion and with my great pleasure he said that yes, it is an earlier piece and he also confirmed the dating. So I really think that we can take the dating for sure at this point. I am glad with this discussion (and with my simple bottle too)Smiley
Giovanni
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« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2012, 04:20:14 pm »

Giovanni,
   You are right to be pleased with your 'simple' bottle, and there is a concept, "Artful artlessness", a Literati concept where an object is purposefully done to look 'artless', as if a casual object, but actually great care is taken to make it look 'artless'.
   Thus, I have a scholar's staff, late 18th/early 19th C., which just looks like a well patinated knarled branch or piece of old thick vine. But if you look at the head the right way ( on a diagonal, with the head up), you see it is a wonderful 'dragon's head'! It is illustrated in my "Worlds", p.55, accompanying A-17.
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Tom B.
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« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2013, 03:41:17 am »

Dear Giovanni & all,

Just happened to read through this thread that I missed last September and agree that you did an excellent job of research. Missed it on the other forum as well, but I can vouch for the excellent database of Chinese figures collected by Tommy. We email regularly and I often send him interesting porcelain with figures, especially when they are dated by inscription.  He can quickly spot later copies and fakes from the painting of the faces and then back it up with comparisons of the paste, potting, and enamels.  

Best regards,

Tom B.
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Tom B.

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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2013, 01:51:01 pm »

Dear Tom,
I fully agree: Tommy's job is an excellent tool, very reliable.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Wattana
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2013, 08:22:31 pm »

Dear Tom B. and Giovanni,

For those of us not "in the know" could you explain who Tommy is?

Thanks
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« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2013, 07:18:52 am »

Dear Tom,
Tommy is one of the administrators of Gotheborg.com. He is whom is managing the project of dating decorated porcelain based on the features of the faces. We did talk about this in the first page of this thread.
Giovanni
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« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2013, 06:26:49 am »

Dear Giovanni,

I remember the person who studied 2,250 faces, but I don't think he was ever mentioned by name. If he was, last September is along time ago by this forum's standards, so I have forgotten!

Tom
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« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2013, 12:18:54 pm »

Tom,

It is Tommy Eklöf of Sweden, his profile indicates he is a collector of Chinese and Japanese ceramics and porcelains. He is a moderator on the Gotheborg.com site, and his experience and knowledge is well respected by participants on that site.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2013, 08:40:45 pm »

Thanks Charll.
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« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2013, 10:07:27 am »

Dear all,

Yes Joey, you have a good memory.  I did post a Qianjiang bottle way back in January 2012.  It was discussed in the following thread:

My First Qianjiang Cai Porcelain Snuff Bottle

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,622.0.html

Thank you Charll, for clearing up the identity of "Tommy" who I referred to without explanation.

Best regards,

Tom B.
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Best regards,

Tom B.

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« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2013, 11:29:36 am »

Dear Tom B.,
   I'd never heard about Qianjiang porcelain before, so it stood out. It is facinating to learn about a whole facet of snuff bottle collecting of which I was totally ignorant.
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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