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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
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Took a chance and looking for comments on this one / Yong Shou T'ien

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Author Topic: Took a chance and looking for comments on this one / Yong Shou T'ien  (Read 1530 times)
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George
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« on: March 26, 2011, 06:13:03 am »

Caught this one newely listed out of the UK..

Just looking for comments and wonder if the style looks at all familiar to anyone ..

Any knowledge about the scene ?

A wee bit larger at about 3 1/2"

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:45:32 am by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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Clare
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 05:26:53 pm »

This is just way to cool !

Can't help out with the picture as I just do not have any knowledge of chinese art.

It is a beautiful bottle George  Smiley
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bottles4sure
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 06:44:13 pm »

I can not help either George. I do not even have any painted bottles. Watching some of the ones you have purchased sure has made me take an interest. I really like that this one looks old. Like the amber color and the really neat painting in the bottle.
 Very nice.



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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 07:31:30 pm »

Very nice bottle George.  It is a depiction of a fight in the Warring States period, I think... The oil paint used in the bottle makes me thinkl it is a 30s bottle.  If I am not mistaken, oil paint was first used in the late 20s, but I will let Bill chime in on that one.  I never found any conclusive statement anywhere on that...
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 08:34:27 pm »

I found one reference in Bob Stevens "The Collectors Book Of Snuff Bottles" about how Artists of the Shantung school (1894) used paint with powdered enamels mixed with glue, which were then fired.

I did find this about how Wang Xisan was the first artist to introduce the techniques of oil painting  to inside painting. The article does not say what year he introduced it though...
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 08:51:06 pm »

I am absolutely convinced Wang Xisan was not the first to use oil paint, based on a few dozen items in my collection dated from the 20/30/40s, including a stunning Ma Shouxuan of birds dated 1934, but that does not photograph well (this seems to be generally true as these oil painted bottles often reflect too much light, and due ofcourse to me not being a professional photographer, far from it..).  I have read somewhere that this originated in Bi Rongjiu or the followers of Bi Rongjiu, including his son Bi Baosan, who founded the Shandong school, which by the way, if Bill is right about its origin, would include your nice overlay bottle which seems to have oil-based paint also.  Bill, any information or thoughts on this?
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 09:00:18 pm »

One more interesting point of trivia which would support Bonb Stevens assertion about the Shandong school and the theory that oil paint is derived from there, is the fact that Wang Xisan is trained by the Ye family, i.e. the sons of Ye Zhongsan, of which I dont recall to have ANY oil based painted bottles that are from before 1949 (or after). Maybe Wang Xisan was the first in that 'school' to succesfully master the technique, and the statement on the link is just misleading.
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 09:28:41 pm »

George,

As for this bottle, see this link on my site. I can't see but just a piece of the signature but style is the same.

http://www.snuffbottlecollector.com/yong_shou_tien/yong_shou_tien_00.htm

Also notice my comments about these signatures.

Bill
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 11:19:12 pm »

Am I missing something Bill. Not seeing any signature on my bottle here.

Maybe the piece of what looks like a signature to you from the above pics at a different angle is this ?



What I sure do find super interesting an am extremely grateful to you for Bill, is the following from your site !

I just have to bring it here for the record as it sure fits this bottle.

"Yong Shou T'ian's inside painting career started in 1898 and ended in 1926.
He was fond of painting figures as well as famous generals riding on horses,
fighting with each other in famous battlefields. He was fond of large-sized bottles
which are easy to paint with many figures."

Not much is known about Yong Shou T'ien. He is considered a Middle Period
painter, a general classification of painters who painted in the late 1800's through
the mid 1900's.
A couple of the bottles in this collection use "Simplified" Chinese in the signature.
While some form of simplified writing was in use duringYong Shou T'ien's painting
period from 1898 to 1926, this form of writing did not become widely used until the
Cultural Revolution in the attempt to unify Chinese writing and to destroy much of
Chinese tradition. Even though these bottles are painted in traditional Yong Shou T'ien
style and in larger, more rounded bottles not often used by other painters, if is only fair
to say that they may not all have been painted by Yong.

Also for the record, and for other members, guests, and lurkers to the forum to see is the perfect resemblance in style to the Yong Shou T'ien bottles Bill shares on his site.

After viewing the bottles within Bill's site, I just can't help but feel this bottle was quite likely was painted by the same artist.

I had a good size smile on the overlay bottle just purchased when it arrived, but I gotta tell ya.., I have a big smile running from ear to ear on this one  Grin



« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 11:38:41 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 12:09:21 am »

yes, you could be right, and lets hope you are Wink   Bill has one shown that has exactly the same background color...
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 04:19:54 am »

This sure has been a fun one to follow.

Nice bottle there George.
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 12:58:39 pm »

I just stumbled upon and ordered this Arts Of Asia Magazine that talks about the Shantung School.

Bet there will be something within it of interest !

Arts of Asia magazine November - December 1976

Contents

*Edward O'dell's Collection
*Archaeology & Modern Israel
*Chinese paintings in the Imperial Palace Collection
*My Story of Snuff Plates
*Inside Painted Snuff Bottles
  of the Shantung Sehool
*Hong Kong Chinese Snuff Bottle Collectors
SaleroomNews

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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 04:39:36 pm »

Came in the mail today !

A little taller than I thought at 4", but that is another good clue towards believing it could have been painted by Yong Shou T'ien. As he painted larger bottles like this.

She is a beauty !  Grin
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