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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
September 19, 2018, 01:54:28 am
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1  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: Yan Yutian ? on: August 26, 2018, 04:57:58 am
Hi Rube,

I have deep pockets but short arms when it comes to parting with large sums for bottles so tend to avoid the major auction houses  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
2  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Shadow Agate on: August 26, 2018, 04:55:08 am
Hi Rube,

Lovely bottle and a spoon for the serious snuffer !

Regards, Adrian.
3  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Cinnabar bottle on: August 26, 2018, 04:51:45 am
Dear Joey,

You need to play "spot the ball". There are numerous little balls of resin you can see.  Grin

Regards, Adrian.
4  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: First bottle upload on: August 26, 2018, 04:45:35 am
Hi Brian,

I think it was a case of me not explaining it clearly  Roll Eyes

I was discounting the fact that your bottle could have been a resin copy cast from a mould taken from an original ivory bottle because a mould taken from an original which had elements that had been carved "in the round" would not be able to have been removed from the original bottle without being cut into random small pieces rendering the mould useless. Essentially when a mould was taken the moulding material would work it's way around the back of the carved figures meaning the moulding material would be entwined around parts of the original bottle meaning it couldn't be removed from the mould without cutting the mould.  I didn't mean to suggest your bottle may have had elements, like the figures, carved separately then attached to the main body of the bottle when I mentioned that some ivory bottles were made in sections. Me bad  Angry

I have included some examples of bottles I have.

The polychromed bottle doesn't have any obvious Schreger lines and if you look at the neck you can see it's darker on the right side which is something you see with bone. Although the neck is a seperate section, the main body, when viewed from above, has darker areas towards the middle so may also be bone even though the figures look like they are of ivory, they don't have the darked specks usual with bone although there are numerous types of bone.

The rectangular bottle is made of sections, four sides, a base, a top and a neck. The Schreger lines on the base and top run across the bottle and those on the sides run up the bottle. This was the point Tom made about sectional bottles and how the Schreger lines can run horizontally across the body in some cases which is not how you might expect.


The little pot bottle is as it was when it arrived with me and has a separate neck but also a separate base as you can see in the second picture.

Hope I haven't complicated it more  Cheesy

Regards, Adrian.

5  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Cinnabar bottle on: August 25, 2018, 05:25:32 am
I thought I would add this to this post as I mentioned to Luke in it that there were times when a single layer of lacquer was painted over bottles.

This was a case of listening to Joey's advice, don't look for what is right, look for what is wrong and reject a bottle if one detail is wrong even if everything else looks right. In this case I went ahead because it interested me and was cheap and I hope is an example of what to look out for.

I saw this bottle on ebay as the auction was about to end with no bidders. There is a split in the neck and resin doesn't tend to split, there were places where a layer was peeling off and resin doesn't peel. The sides showed no evidence of a join from a mould and the colour and shine weren't like typical resin. I did see what could have been air bubble holes towards the base which should have been the one thing to make me reject it but the other aspects were not typical resin and the low price meant I would risk it and use it as a "learning" bottle.

My picture shows a lot more detail than the ebay pictures and you can see that a layer of what could be lacquer but is more likely some paint has been applied and is flaking off. The paint has a shine to it that resin doesn't have as you can see from where the paint has flaked off.

What was interesting when looking at it through a loupe was that there are a few small unpainted areas where the moulding has picked up the detail of the original bottles layers of lacquer. I haven't managed to capture this in a photo as yet and may not be able to but it is a case of needing to be aware, what may look like evidence of layers of lacquer may just be evidence of how moulding materials can pick up the minutest details.

My reading on lacquer shows that there were genuine carved cinnabar lacquer items that had a layer of lacquer applied after the carving was done, something which could hide eveidence of the layers of lacquer. It's thought that this was done some time after the item was made, it may have been to "refresh" the colour as cinnabar lacquer darkens if left in sunlight but that is my opinion as no particular reason for the layer of lacquer being applied was given in the books.

We had a post by a poster Artadorned about a cinnabar bottle which had some peeling of a surface layer which I didn't think was genuine but having now had this bottle in hand I can see that some makers were taking their cast resin bottles the extra mile by adding a layer of paint/lacquer over the resin.

It can be very hard to know if a bottle is genuine carved layered lacquer, especially just from pictures so beware, check all the details.

Regards, Adrian.




6  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: First bottle upload on: August 25, 2018, 04:20:34 am
Hi Brian,

The carving of some of the figures and of some arms etc are done in the round, they are carved all the way around and are separate from the main body. That should mean it isn't moulded. You could take a mould from the original bottle but you would have to cut that mould up in order to remove it from where it encircled the arms etc meaning the mould would be useless. Hope that makes sense.

Some of these types of bottles were made in sections, I have a few examples and it saved on what was an expensive material and made hollowing of the interior easier.

There is a post in this section "Huge Ivory Column Bottle" where the bottle was made in sections with the top and base in ivory and the main body made from bone which is fairly easy to spot as it has flecks of darker material in the bone.

As Joey has suggested, there are different types of ivory and I think marine ivory may not have such evident Schreger lines as elephant ivory.

The recessed base looks unusual, not obviously ivory.

Regards, Adrian.
7  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: Yan Yutian ? on: August 25, 2018, 02:40:12 am
Hi Rube,

That was one I was following on my watch list, congratulations.

Regards, Adrian.
8  The Gathering / Introductions / Re: Greetings from Milwaukee! on: August 21, 2018, 04:31:16 am
Hi Brain,

Welcome to the forum and look forward to seeing your bottles and having your input to our collective of snuff bottle aficionados.

Regards, Adrian.
9  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Basketweave soapstone bottle. on: August 17, 2018, 03:28:00 am
Hi Inn Bok,

I would have assumed your bottle to have been agate, interesting to see how varied it can be.

I like the carving and how much space there is around it.

Regards, Adrian.
10  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Agate floater. on: August 15, 2018, 10:33:18 am
Hi Tom,

This is where it gets confusing.

You say you refer to the part in contact with the table as the foot and also describe bottles as having a raised foot. To the way my (troubled) mind works if you raise a foot it becomes a base and whatever is raising it then becomes the foot. Essentially, yes you are raising the foot but only in order to put another foot under it.

Your sketch B shows what is to me a footrim (foot rim) which in the Treasury books on jade is described as a recessed oval foot which is misleading. You can have more than one kind of recessed oval foot.

I referred to my bottle as having an inset flat foot to describe the fact that the foot is a smaller oval than the body of the bottle, it steps in from what would be the natural line of the body if it continued down in an unbroken line.

Is the foot of my bottle raised or is it lowered but then can you lower something that is already the lowest part  Huh Grin

Regards, Adrian.
11  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Agate floater. on: August 15, 2018, 02:51:16 am
Hi Tom,

C1  Grin

I do find foot descriptions to be misleading, the Treasury books don't help as the descriptions change from the earlier books to the later ones. The jade bottles have basic descriptions but by the glass bottles the descriptions are more detailed.

Regards, Adrian.
12  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: Modern glass overlay bottles on: August 14, 2018, 10:56:18 am
This is a bottle I have had for a while and was one where whether it was old or new was of no importance, I was just drawn to it for its colour, subject and quality.

I'm not sure of it's age, there is some wear to the footrim and some small bubbles evident in the base glass but, while it looks like a camphor base, it is the interior of the glass that makes it look opaque as opposed to anything in the base glass which you can see is clear on the picture showing the neck opening.

The carving doesn't have the excess of detail common in so many newer bottles, it's restrained and very well executed and both overlay and base layer are well polished. Height is 63mm.

Regards, Adrian.

PS, what looks like a chip out of the overlay on the fish's head is not there, some glitch seems to have happened when the picture was transferred from my camera. 
13  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Agate floater. on: August 14, 2018, 09:58:16 am
Thank you all for the comments.

The foot was one thing that worried me because it is flat, there is no footrim, so it would have been more accurate for me to have described the foot as recessed and not inset. It is not unusual to see a flat, non recessed foot but a flat recessed one is unusual. I have one other which is on a bottle I referred to as a "rotten leaf" agate.

I have only tested the bottle in a shallow dish of water so can't confirm it as a true floater. I can only say the top sank slowly while the base floated well but whether it was well enough to support the whole bottle in deeper water hasn't been answered and I'm now worried about cracking the bottle  Grin

Jason, sorry to hear about the cracked bottle. I will try and be more aware when handling bottles now.

Regards, Adrian.

14  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: The second Ye bottle in my collection on: August 14, 2018, 06:35:46 am
Dear Samson,

Sorry to be so late to comment but a lovely bottle.

I meant to comment earlier but wanted to refer to the Treasury books before doing so because they have an example of a Ye bottle painted in a Zhou Leyuan style and wanted to see if the calligraphy on it made any reference to Zhou Leyuan and to ask whether the calligraphy on your bottle referred to him ?

Regards, Adrian.
15  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Agate floater. on: August 13, 2018, 07:09:32 am
It's been a while since I bought any bottles from ebay but I recently bought 2 from the same seller and this was the cheaper one of the two, neither of which was expensive which made a nice change as there have been some good prices achieved on ebay of late. (Over 5000 for a jadeite bottle and over 1000 for an unsigned middle period IP panelled medicine type bottle).

It was clearly well hollowed from the pictures and had a good stopper and spoon so I was surprised it attracted so few bids so was a bit of a bargin especially as I didn't get charged any import tax  Grin

Banded agate with a jadeite stopper and ivory spoon, 63mm high with a flat, inset foot and slightly concave mouth rim. Extensively and very smoothly hollowed to floater level.

Regards, Adrian.

16  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: My first carved glass snuff bottle on: July 29, 2018, 04:46:51 am
Dear Joey,

Do you have an opinion on how flat the very bottom of the footrims are on Rube's second bottle and my auspicious objects bottle in terms of dating them.

I see flat footrims on newer overlay bottles as well as older ones but it seems more normal to expect a rounded footrim on older bottles.

Regards, Adrian.

17  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Porcelain and Yixing Chinese Snuff Bottles 瓷器和宜兴鼻烟壶 / Re: Famille Noire Bottle on: July 29, 2018, 04:38:07 am
Hi George,

Good to have a post from you, hope you are well.

I really like your (and Charll's) bottle, is it a reflection in a mirror ?


Regards, Adrian.
18  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: My first carved glass snuff bottle on: July 28, 2018, 06:38:04 am
Dear Joey,

I will try and find the bottle on Sotheby's site so I can see better pictures of it.

Regards, Adrian.
19  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Porcelain and Yixing Chinese Snuff Bottles 瓷器和宜兴鼻烟壶 / Re: pair of dragons on: July 28, 2018, 06:30:29 am
Hi Rube,

Both lovely bottles but I'm with Giovanni in (just) having a preference for the squarer bottle.

Regards, Adrian.
20  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: 2 x Zhou Leyuan bottles ? on: July 26, 2018, 09:20:56 am
I'm adding this very recent purchase here as it is so similar in its style and in the rendering of a Zhou Leyuan signature to the second bottle in my first post which was thought to be painted by Yan Yutian. Height is 58mm.

Regards, Adrian.
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