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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
January 20, 2018, 12:34:02 pm
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1  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: January 15, 2018, 03:49:34 am
Sorry but the seller has replied that she has no more stock and wasn't able to supply a manufacturers name.

Regards, Adrian.
2  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: January 13, 2018, 04:26:38 am
I will see if I can contact the seller and find out if it is still available for anyone who may be interested.

Regards, Adrian.
3  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: January 12, 2018, 02:16:12 pm
Dear Giovanni and Joey,

It's a new fabric that I had sent from China and was bought through a site called Etsy. It has taken some time to arrive and I couldn't find it again when I looked at the sellers listing so it may have all been sold.

I'm surprised the makers of the padded snuff bottle boxes haven't used it.

Regards, Adrian.
4  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Wang XiSan Articles on: January 12, 2018, 09:23:26 am
Hi Pin,

Thank you for your time in translating these articles, much appreciated.

Regards, Adrian.
5  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: January 12, 2018, 09:21:45 am
I don't have a Friday Fun Bottle so it will have to be Friday Fun Fabric instead.

I want to make a display cabinet for my bottles and thought this would be ideal for the back lining.

Regards, Adrian.
6  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Happy New Year ! on: January 03, 2018, 10:59:07 am
Wishing everyone on the forum happiness, health and success for 2018.

Regards, Adrian.
7  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: December 23, 2017, 07:26:34 am
Dear Joey,

I'm feeling well trumped by your Christmas bling bottle.

I questioned my bottle being sandwiched as I didn't consider the gold and cinnabar red splashes to be a layer as such. If I bought a sandwich with that little filling in it I would ask for my money back  Wink

Regards, Adrian.
8  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: December 22, 2017, 02:40:41 am
A seasonal snuff bottle in that, with a little imagination, it resembles a Christmas tree.

I don't know if this fully qualifies as a sandwiched glass bottle. The base layer has been  splashed with gold and cinnabar red and the final layer looks to have been rolled over as it has some elongated bubbles showing which would suggest it wasn't dipped in the final layer.

Height is 64mm and the stopper is stained ivory with a small piece of coral.

I imagine the flat on the base was a latter addition as it would have been very easy to flatten the base when the original bottle was shaped.

It is somewhat crude but lays down nicely on it's flattened sides which may have made extracting snuff easier.

Regards, Adrian.

 
9  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Booted by the ICSBS on: December 22, 2017, 02:21:08 am
Happy Friday  Grin
10  The Gathering / Introductions / Re: Ebay retracts winning bid because it was too low on: December 21, 2017, 05:23:11 am
Hi Ileney,

I've had the same thing happen with a carved cinnabar inro which was very badly photographed so I won with a low price only to be told the seller couldn't find the item. I let the seller know that I collect inro and constantly search for them on ebay because it made it hard for them to then immediately relist the item hoping it would achieve more.

They waited a few months before relisting it and I immediately contacted them. They did offer to sell it to me at the price I had won it for but it was obvious that they didn't want to and were surprised I had contacted them so I declined.

It sold for almost exactly the same price so their dishonesty achieved nothing.

It is frustrating because you can offer things for sale on ebay in any way you want and if you offer something at a low start price then you should accept the price it sells for. 

Regards, Adrian.

   
11  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 15, 2017, 11:47:26 am
Hi Rube,

There is a ding in the lip. The metal there is very thin so probably easier to damage than you might think.

I don't think the tube can be a later addition or it would have to have been narrower than what would have been the original but short tube that formed the neck and joined the main body of the base metal body. Other than that the work involved to replace the tube as a longer one would be pretty impossible without damaging the bottle I would think.

I assume any brick dust would be well mixed in with the lacquer and would have to be present to some extent on the lacquer surface so probably not. Lacquer darkens with time so a more recent scratch through the surface might show as a different colour. If you can get a picture then someone on here will be able to help.

Regards, Adrian.
12  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 14, 2017, 04:09:50 am
Hi Luke,

I'm probably easier time wise than you or Jason so it might be down to you both to find a time that suits and then PM me to let me know.

Here's the best I can do macro wise with my little camera. You can see layers going horizontally across the posts of the building and the men.

Regards, Adrian.
13  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 13, 2017, 12:10:14 pm
Hi Jas,

Lets see if we can meet up in the new year at some point. As I suggested it then I ought to pay for lunch for you and Luke.

Regards, Adrian.
14  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 13, 2017, 12:05:06 pm
Dear Joey,

My assumption would be that the maximum of 36 layers related to any lacquer, like cinnabar, that needed to be applied thick enough to then carve as any flat lacquered items would have less than the 36 layers.

I should have added to the previous post in saying any law could be revoked and items made since the Yongle reign have had more than 36 layers, some far more.

I think it was a question of time, not from an expense point of view, in that each layer took a day or more to set so an item with 200 layers would take a year or so before it was even carved. You may have forgotten why you were making it by then  Grin

Having to find a way to put each layer on thicker gave an option to produce faster. What I haven't found as yet is anything that relates to whether making "bastardised" lacquer that could be applied thicker had any effect on the quality of how it carved. If it was felt to be inferior for important items then the older purer lacquered coats would likely have been used.

I agree with you and Giovanni about age and quality. Even if there were harder times or times when general quality slipped in certain periods there would always be craftsmen who wouldn't let their own standards slip.

Happy Hanuka.

Regards, Adrian.

15  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 13, 2017, 07:19:57 am
Dear Joey,

I have looked through my 25x loupe at the bottle and, besides making my head hurt through  the concentration, it may be that there are over 50 layers due to the depth the carving reaches in places.

I did say in another post about cinnabar lacquer that a 1591 text stated that there was an Imperial order in the Yongle reign that no more than 36 layers of lacquer were to be used so ways were developed to thicken the layers of lacquer because pure coloured lacquer can't be applied in thick layers.

Pure lacquer has a certain viscosity that dictates how thinly it can be applied. It needs to be applied in thin layers as thicker layers don't set all the way through the layer and have a crust that sets stopping air from curing the layer all the way through. They added certain powders like brick dust to the lacquer to thicken it which opened up the structure of the lacquer allowing it to set all the way through.

It is very rare to find cinnabar lacquer items with a hundred layers or more let alone the up to 500 layers sometimes quoted as being standard. If you think of Chinese Tixi lacquer (Guri lacquer in Japan) the layers of alternating colours can be quite thick.

I will try and get some macro pictures of the layers if I have time.

Regards, Adrian.
16  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 12, 2017, 03:25:24 pm
Hi Tom and Joey,

Thank you for your comments. I especially like the detail of the knots in the tree trunks being carved in.

The stopper is carved cinnabar but there are no layers showing in it. I can't really count the layers in the bottle but I would be surprised if it exceeded 50 layers.

There have been other quality cinnabar bottles selling through the big auction houses that are of the same height. As I said, I doubt anyone else has felt the need to check where the inner tube extends to so it may not be that unusual if you consider Tom's logical suggestion for it.

I assume this would likely have been a table bottle as it doesn't sit well in the hand size wise and I would be concerned of damage happening to it if it was carried around to be used.

Regards, Adrian.
17  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 12, 2017, 06:26:16 am
Hi Luke,

Thanks for the comments. I'm always happy to come up to London, we need to see if Jason will come as well. I think I said before when a meet was mentioned that a trip to the V and A might be nice to work into a meet. I've been there a few times before but never looked at their snuff bottles or inro. I'll bring a decent loupe to see the 100's of layers.

Regards, Adrian.
18  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 12, 2017, 05:27:04 am
Thank you George and Jas.

The tube doesn't bother me and I wonder how many other people would check to see if the tube in their bottle was as long !

I bought it from one of the lesser auction houses in London and normally ride up on my motorbike to collect anything but have been a bit busier of late.

As it was an auction buy I could have rejected the lot if they misrepresented it but I was happy it was real from the limited pictures.

Regards, Adrian.
19  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Large cinnabar lacquer bottle. on: December 11, 2017, 05:31:15 pm
After close to a month waiting this finally arrived today.

At 80mm high it is a large bottle and has a replacement stopper that I might sit in the sunlight in the hope it will darken in colour to match the bottle more.

It's unusual in that although it is made around a proper hollow metal body, the tube that forms the neck doesn't end where it meets the top of the hollow body but seems to extend all the way to the base meaning that it had no real practical use for holding snuff except in the tube.

Tapping the inside of the tube shows the bottle is hollow from the noise it makes and there isn't enough weight for the interior to be anything other than hollow.

As such it would seem to be a later bottle whilst not being modern. Layers of lacquer are very clear to see but in the 10's rather than 100's of layers (which are very rare). The colour is deeper than the pictures show.

Regards, Adrian.

20  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Friday Fun Bottle on: December 11, 2017, 03:17:49 am
Hi Charll,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm getting some glass polish sent so will see what it looks like when it's got a shine to it before deciding what to do.

We've had snow in the UK which has closed schools etc as we aren't really set up to deal with it. 4 inches and the country would be at a standstill.

Regards, Adrian.
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