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The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 17, 2017, 04:52:15 am
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1  Collections / Research / Technical / Re: Snuff bottle hollowing quote. on: October 16, 2017, 10:00:29 pm

I came up with different totals every time I counted up  Smiley


Phew...!
That's a relief. I thought it might have been just me.
2  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 16, 2017, 09:55:13 pm
Thanks Rube,

A real beauty...!!!

I would place my bets on this being a Bob Snively spoon. Maybe Joey can say for sure, based on the ownership history of  the bottle.

Tom
3  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 16, 2017, 09:51:03 pm

The date I provided for the closing time was quoted from Tom's comments, Maybe Tom can provide the source, at same time I will do some research as well.



Dear Steven,

If you have Volume 6 of 'A Treasury of Chinese Snuff Bottles', it includes a lengthy introduction listing Palace records and other contemporary accounts connected with Imperial and related workshops, quoting sources. (My 'Chronology in Perspective' chart was created from these accounts.) In there it states that the Imperial workshop responsible for cloisonne production was closed in 1789. It does not say if and when they were re-opened.

Whether that is right or wrong, this is what the records indicate.

Tom 
4  Collections / Research / Technical / Re: Snuff bottle hollowing quote. on: October 16, 2017, 05:11:54 am
Hi Inn Bok,

3 charts was pushing it a bit so I hope 2 will do. In fact the IP bottles are a mixture of glass and crystal with about 60% of them being glass and in terms of opening sizes they reflect the mixture of materials as they sit between the results for glass and non glass so I didn't feel there was much to gain from graphing them separately, hope that's ok.

Regards, Adrian.
 

Adrian,

I was toying with your research on mouth opening sizes over the weekend. Using Excel I was able to come up with several ways of displayng the information in graph and pie chart form. I may have miscounted, since my total sampling is for 1,262 bottles, while you list only 1,259. But you get the idea...

Tom
5  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 16, 2017, 12:50:29 am

There is a thread on the Forum about Mr. Snively's spoons, they're incredible! But, I'm not sure this barley twist was one of his or not? If so, I'm honored!


Hi Rube,

I have long admired Bob Snively's spoons (hence my thread), but I have never had the privilege of owning one.

Can you post a photo of the spoon out of the bottle? We may be able to say for sure if it is one of his.

Thanks,
Tom
6  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 16, 2017, 12:42:23 am

Apparently, Tom's thread has become a platform for members to showcase bottles matching the theme from their collections. So I've decided to share mine here instead of opening a new thread! Wink

This smoky quartz bottle came as a birthday present for myself. It's my second smoky quartz bottle. One with a good provenance: Sotheby's New York, Collection of Bob C. Stevens, 25 June 1982.

Height: 67mm


Dear Samson,

A wonderful 'shibui' bottle, and with a great provenance. Congratulations! 
I cannot think of a better birthday present...!   Wink

Best,
Tom
7  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 16, 2017, 12:36:32 am
Tom,

Here is the rutilated quartz bottle, measuring 49mm w/o coral stopper.  I think it is carved in the shape of a fruit?

Cheers,

Rube.


Hi Rube,

Sorry I have taken so long to respond. (A lot of posts have appeared on this thread since!)

That is what I call a "busy" rutlilated bottle! Interesting shape. Like Joey, I cannot quite make out what fruit it is representing.

Best,
Tom
8  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Jade Purse on: October 12, 2017, 05:49:43 am

     Is there no example in Bob Stevens' book or his Mikimoto catalogue?
I thought there was.


Dear Joey,

I had overlooked that one!

Best,
Tom
9  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 12, 2017, 05:41:01 am
Hi Rube,

No need to hesitate. If the quartz isn't opaque or milky then it's clear, as far as I'm concerned.

In contrast to your 'busy' hair crystal, here is one I posted on another thread which is the extreme opposite. It contains no more than a couple dozen really fine 'hairs'....almost imperceptible in the photographs.

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2620.msg34984.html#msg34984

Look forward to seeing your rutilated one.

Tom
10  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 12, 2017, 04:42:19 am
Dear Matthias,

I can see your logic. So the examples with mica flakes in the enamel would have to be dated 1845 onwards.

When it came to copying Chinese artefacts to meet market demand, I think they would have had no problems replicating the simpler motifs seen on the Marakovic bottles posted here (which lack the mica). All I am saying is that those bottles may well be older, and Chinese in origin.  

Best,
Tom
11  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 11, 2017, 10:00:34 pm

This thread, started by Tom, is one of my favorites on the Forum.


Thanks Rube,
I see you have good taste...!   Grin 

Your hair crystal bottle is very attractive. And I also love that spoon!   

The overall shape of the bottle and its detailing lead me to date it to around 1820-1880.

Best,
Tom
12  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 11, 2017, 09:48:33 pm
Dear All,

Really interesting discussion going on here. And thanks Steven for including my two bottles in your last post!
I do not know enough about Japanese arts and crafts to respond to Matthias' assertion that all are products of Japan. However, most of the rest of you are saying that the cloisonne bottles are Chinese. Logic suggests to me that this is so, based on the fact that this technique was already well established and perfected by the time the snuff bottle era began.

So whether they be as early as Ming dynasty or as late as Republic era, I believe all the images posted here are of Chinese origin.

Best,
Tom L
13  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Jade Purse on: October 11, 2017, 09:28:59 pm
Hi Rube,

That is an exquisite little bottle! Thanks for sharing. I agree with Joey on the dating range. This type of purse-shaped bottle is usually made from white nephrite jade. This is the first time I have seen one in clear rock crystal.

Tom
14  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Jet bottle on: October 11, 2017, 09:22:23 pm
Dear Tom, Jo and Joey, if I will ever think of selling it I will let you know first, but I hope it will stay with me for a long time!  Smiley
Best,
Matthias

Hi Matthias,

I too hope that little treasure stays with you for a long time to come.
I only wanted to let you know that there are seriously interested parties right here on the forum, in case you ever do decide to sell!

Best,
Tom
15  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Enamel on metal bottle on: October 11, 2017, 06:14:25 am

Three guesses which he picked.


Dear Joey,

Only three guesses? - That's a tough one.....   Grin

Tom
16  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Jet bottle on: October 11, 2017, 04:33:05 am
Hi Matthias,

If you ever want to sell your interesting jet bottle, don't forget to let us know about it first.    Grin

Tom
17  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Laque Burgauté Snuff Bottles on: October 11, 2017, 04:20:22 am
Dear Joey,

Yes, we could unknowingly have passed each other in Hong Kong! In truth, I didn't know there was a convention being held there. I was passing through on my way to Australia, and stopped off for 5 days to see a friend, found Y. F. Yang's shop, and learned about the exhibition.

Best,
Tom
18  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 11, 2017, 04:10:59 am
Hi Matthias,

These are exactly the types of bottle I had in mind when I commented on Steven's example.

Dear Joey,

From what I understand, cloisonne' production was already in full swing at the Palace workshops before the snuff bottle era began. It only stopped when the workshop was closed down in 1789. Production was later resumed by private workshops, sometime after 1820, hence my suggested date range.

I agree that they possibly lacked the skills to produce intricate designs on so small an object as a snuff bottle, but these older bottles have comparatively simple designs and motifs. 

Best,
Tom
19  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Laque Burgauté Snuff Bottles on: October 11, 2017, 02:44:29 am
Dear Joey,

Although I visited Mr. Yang's shop in 1978 (as well as the snuff bottle exhibition at the Hong Kong City Hall that November), I was not yet on the radar of dealers or collectors. That didn't happen until I joined the ICSBS in 1997.

And I didn't meet any other collectors until I joined George's amazing Forum in 2012 !!!  The last five years have transformed my collecting experience more than words can describe. I was a maverick collector for 40 years....   Grin

Best,
Tom
 
20  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 11, 2017, 12:54:44 am
Steven,

The colouring, and detailing around neck and foot are consistent with older Chinese cloisonne bottles. I can't comment on the mica flakes, as I am not familiar with them. Without the mica flakes I would have dated this bottle to 1820-1900.

I agree that Rube's bottle is c.1950-1980, or even newer.

Tom
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