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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 21, 2017, 07:56:46 pm
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1  Public Forum Categories and Boards / IP Artists of the Very Modern Period ( 1990 to Present ) / Re: Zhen Yu on: Today at 11:44:30 am
Dear Tom,

     I will get them photographed and posted. Probably after I return from London the first week of Nov. But possibly this week, if I can.
Best,
Joey
2  Public Forum Categories and Boards / IP Artists of the Very Modern Period ( 1990 to Present ) / Re: Zhen Yu on: Today at 11:42:29 am
Dear Richard,

   No harm done. Thanks for the correction. Noted.
Best,
Joey
3  Public Forum Categories and Boards / IP Artists of the Very Modern Period ( 1990 to Present ) / Re: Zhen Yu on: Today at 06:00:47 am
Dear Peter,

      My question - is it Pan Jiafang or Fan Jiafang? - is based on Richard's post yesterday, when the artist's name is rendered 'Fan Jiafang'.
Since Richard is a native Chinese speaker etc., I want to be sure.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
4  Public Forum Categories and Boards / IP Artists of the Very Modern Period ( 1990 to Present ) / Re: Zhen Yu on: October 20, 2017, 05:34:21 pm
Dear Tom,

     I mis-spoke; or my cataloguing is really a SNAFU.  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
I actually have 5 bottles by Pan Jaifang (or is it Fan Jaifang?).
1. 2 Landscape scenes, in glass, bought in Oct.2003, via Su Fengyi, cost US$400
2. 2 'Four Wangs' style landscapes, in glass, from Dec.2004 via David Osborne
3. 2 Landscape scenes, in rutilated quartz, bought in Oct.2006, via Su Fengyi
4. 2 Landscape scenes, in glass, from 2007, bought in 2014 from Rick R. (he bought from David Osborne in 2008)
5.  2 very colourful modernist style Landscape scenes, in quartz, ca. 2004-2006, bought in 2015 from Rick R. (he bought from David Osborne in 2007). This one is a joint effort, by Zhenyu and his wife, Li Zhen.

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

Dear Joey,

If you have some of his bottles they must be more collectible than I imagined.  Smiley
Do you remember what the subject matter is on your two?

Best,
Tom
5  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Meeting of Singapore Collectors on: October 20, 2017, 09:30:38 am
Richard, 

     For me, the Coca Cola bottle!   Roll Eyes Grin
Joey
6  Shop and Swap / Sell, Swap, Trade and Barter / Re: Yu Fenghua's Enamel on Glass Bottles for sale on: October 20, 2017, 09:25:53 am
Dear Tom,

    We've the same taste, at least in snuff bottles!  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Best,
Joey
7  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Meeting of Singapore Collectors on: October 20, 2017, 02:23:50 am
Dear All,

     I have enjoyed YT's hospitality on Sentosa before, and the place is stunning.
The food is really good as well! Though I did not get that fish.   Cry Grin
Next time, G-D Willing.  Roll Eyes Grin
Though I loved the satays and the soup I did get.  Grin
And all will agree that the bottles are first rate.
Best,
Joey
8  Public Forum Categories and Boards / IP Artists of the Very Modern Period ( 1990 to Present ) / Re: Zhen Yu on: October 20, 2017, 02:06:27 am
Dear Tom,

      Beautiful landscape! Congratulations.
I have 2 Zhen Yu bottles myself, and did not know that this is the hao of
Pan Jiafang. I will add that to my documentation.
Thank you,
Joey
9  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 19, 2017, 05:28:30 pm
Dear Tom B.,

     You could well be correct, in which case I will have to accept that they had a higher technological skill at that time then I understood.
But I still need provenances. Of course, many of those you quote are definitely above board, and they can't ALL be wrong.

   Best,
Joey
10  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Meeting of Singapore Collectors on: October 19, 2017, 05:23:12 pm
Dear Inn Bok,

      Looks like a similar photo to Richard's... Roll Eyes Grin
Wonderful! Thanx for sharing,
Joey
11  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Singapore Snuff Bottle Group on: October 19, 2017, 05:19:16 pm
Dear Richard,

     I agree with Steven!
I look forward to seeing you when I visit Singapore in Jan.2018, G-D Willing.
Best,
Joey
12  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 18, 2017, 03:05:51 am
Dear Tom B.,

     First, 'Duplicity' means lying, actually. I am assuming you meant 'duplication' [of efforts].

     Second, you've posted loads of really beautiful small cloisonne objects. I'd want to see their provenances, because, maybe it's me, but the same workshops which could reproduce ['and improve'] cloisonne snuff bottles, could presumably do the same with other objects.

    And we know that when the PRC, in a wonderful act of cultural preservation in the period 1950-1955, took all the masters of arts who were still alive, gave them students and materials and put them to work, in order to save China's cultural patrimony (thanks to which we have our modern IPSBs, and wonderful lacquerware and wonderful glass and enamelled wares, etc.), they DID reproduce artworks from the past, but to the best of their ability; and thanks to technological advances, they were able to vastly improve on the delicacy of the work they could produce.

    It is the same with very modern carved/molded and enamelled porcelain snuff bottles of the period 1990-2005. The potters in Jingdezhen were producing these wares that were so OTT compared to the same type of wares produced ca. 1700-1850, that it was extremely obvious.
 
    Real craftsmen artists, when their abilities are freed from control, political or technological, want to 'soar' with their work.  They don't want to just copy stuff from previous artists' hands.

    Best,
Joey
13  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 17, 2017, 06:01:58 am
Dear Rube,
 
     I still think it is by Bob Snively, but I wanted to give you all possible sources.

     Giving a few whacks with a hammer on soft wire, then sanding the edges and tapping the stem to harden it, is NOT the equivalent to Bob Snively carefully and labouriously carving and drilling and polishing his ivory spoons.
I probably should not have added my output to the discussion.

     I put a lot more effort into my Hornbill Beak and Hornbill snuff bottles.
Best,
Joey
14  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 17, 2017, 04:01:39 am
Dear All,
 
    Yes, that looks like a Bob Snively spoon to me. Having said that, there were 3 possible sources I know of, for ornately carved ivory spoons, and it could conceivably have come from any of the three:

1.  Y.F. Yang was having them made by an ivory  carver and his son, who'd 'escaped' from the PRC to [then British] Hong Kong during the Cultural Revolution. He was putting them in clear Quartz bottles, to 'tart' them up, and make them more saleable. At one time, beautiful plain quartz bottles, like beautiful plain white Nephrite Jade bottles, were extremely common, and very cheap. 

    Once, when I bought a number of fine overlays from him in his Ocean Terminal shop, Y.F. gave me a fine plain Quartz [#30 in my 1987 catalogue] as a gift! It is a wonderful bottle, and today I might pay a few thousand US$ to buy it; but at the time (ca.1979-1990), they could barely give them away.

   I think Y.F. commissioned 30 or 40 spoons, though possibly as many as 50.

2. Bob Stevens, though he designed rather than carved. But his Japanese partner of 18 years would carve them. They never made more than 10 spoons, unless I'm mistaken.

3. Bob Snively. He started because he and Jessamine, z"l, bought a plain Quartz bottle from Y.F. with an ornate spoon, and it got broken. They contacted Y.F. for a replacement, but he had run out and was trying to find someone to make more. Bob sent Y.F. a message, that he'd found some old ivory chopsticks and would attempt to make one. A few weeks later, Bob sent Y.F. his second spoon (he replaced the broken spoon with his first one), and Y.F. was very impressed.

    Bob made somewhere between 30 and 50. This spiral 'barleycorn' style was one design; another was a hand holding an incense shovel, with or without a  moving bracelet around the wrist; a third was a knobby bough, the 'leaf' on the end the cup of the spoon.

    And in silver I've made about 50 spoons and in gold, I've made about 20 spoons from cold forging 2.4mm [3/32 of an inch] thick soft (unforged drawn) wire, using sterling silver wire or 18 K gold wire. I hammered at one end to form the bowl of the spoon, and lightly tapped the straight shaft, to get it to 'harden'. I scratched JBS on the bowl of many of them.  They are not that ornate, but are 'noble' metals.

    Oh, and last but certainly not least, I bought an Emerald Green Jadeite rectangular flattened flask on raised footrim from the NYC Martin Schoen collection in June 1988, one of 2 magnificent Emerald Green Jadeite SBs from that famous collection. It has a gem quality rose pink Tourmaline stopper with a spoon carved from Jadeite matching the bottle!
Best,
Joey
15  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Cloisonne Bottles / Re: Cloisone Bottle To Share .. on: October 16, 2017, 02:44:15 pm
Dear Adrian,

      After reading your comment below, I went back to look at the three, and I must admit, all DO have a very Chinese feel to them, albeit incorporating this iconic Japanese detail.
But isn't discussing these details part of what makes collecting the bottles so much fun?!
Best,
Joey


Dear Joey and Tom B,

What I was intending to suggest was a pure Japanese style not being used by the Chinese as opposed to the adoption of some Japanese elements into a Chinese style.

The 3 examples in "Dragon" have a Chinese sense to them in having formalised borders, background diaper and Chinese emblems used as well as drawing on Mon type emblems. I love 102 as it's so unusual.

The Maki-e panel is on a bottle with a very Chinese style to the formalised borders.

However seeing that the Chinese were happier to incorporate Japanese elements makes things more complicated as I would have otherwise felt that any Japanese elements mixed with a Chinese style were more likely Japanese produced.

I might have to start collecting modern items where "Made in China" marks make it far less complicated  Wink

Regards, Adrian.
16  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 15, 2017, 05:53:53 pm
Dear Steven,

     I honestly don't know, but doubt that Bob Stevens signed the spoons.
I know for a fact that Bob Snively didn't.
Best,
Joey
17  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Enamel Painted Bottles / Re: Enamel on copper bottles on: October 15, 2017, 05:52:00 pm
Dear Steven,

     You could be right, and it could be as late as 1950.
But we are agreed it is quite good, and certainly better than the previous example.
Best,
Joey
18  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: October 15, 2017, 12:41:14 am
Dear Steven,

    You are correct - the late Bob Stevens of blessed memory did make a few ornate spoons out of old ivory chopsticks - although I remember that his Japanese lover was the more 'hands-on' one with that end of the hobby.
As I remember it, Bob was the designer, and the other man the actual carver and polisher.  But Bob Stevens didn't 'produce' more than 3 or 4, or possibly 5.

   The late Bob Snively of blessed memory produced at least 30 or possibly 50 - he tried to make an ornately carved spoon, with a barley-corn shaft, or a 'braided' shaft, or a hand holding a 'large' spoon, or an 'incense shovel' shaped spoon, etc., for each of his clear quartz bottles. And he and the late Jessamine, of blessed memory, left a collection of over 1,800 bottles!

    And he made quite a number for friends, as well. I was promised one for an upright octagonal clear quartz I'd bought in Brussels in July 1975 from Silvia Rosenberg, a local collector, as well as for #30 in my 1987 catalogue. Sadly, Bob passed away before I received either spoon.  I had found Bob Snively a 'job lot' of 50 or 60 old ivory chopsticks in a junk shop in San Francisco's Chinatown, and brought them to him in Issaquah WA, where he and Jessamine then lived.

    There was a great chocolatier there, as well, the late Julius Boehm of blessed memory, an Austrian [though his mother was Swiss] who'd escaped because he was anti-Nazi in 1940, and had moved via Switzerland and then Spain, to the USA, arriving in Seattle WA in 1941. 

  Best,
Joey
   

   
19  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Enamel Painted Bottles / Re: Enamel on copper bottles on: October 15, 2017, 12:04:58 am
Dear Steven,

     The dating I gave was ca.1875-1910. That IS early 20th C. Do you mean to as late as ca.1935? That could be right as well, I guess. 
Please clarify what you mean by "early 20th C.".
Best,
Joey


Dear Rube,

I also like the second bottle better.  It looks Canton Enamel to me as well.

It there any chance that you can share a photo of the spoon, I am not so positive about the date, Joey might be correct about the date, but my first impression was late than that. it might be dated early 20th.

Steven
20  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Enamel Painted Bottles / Re: Enamel on copper bottles on: October 15, 2017, 12:02:09 am
Dear Rube,

     I think, as Steven does, that it is from a non-Imperial workshop/atelier in  Guangzhou (Canton); but I was referring to the pale green we know from the Guangxu reign [The Guangxu Emperor reigned from 1874-1908].
Best,
Joey


     


Joey,
Wow, that's great! I think the enameling is well mottled. I'm not sure about the threading directions, I'm thinking it's standard. Thanks for the follow up info about the two different enamel centers, and analysis about green used in Guangzhou bottles.
Cheers,
Rube
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