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Adrain shared this beautiful Ye Zhongsan smokey rock crystal bottle

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The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
August 21, 2017, 09:08:16 am
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1  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: Egyptian bottle on: Today at 05:24:57 am
Dear Giovanni,

   This post of yours is like the popular Israeli joke about elephants:
Why do elephants paint their toenails red?
To hide in cherry trees.
How do we know it works?
Have you ever seen an elephant in a cherry tree?  Roll Eyes Wink
Best,
Joey



You all are totally wrong.
The fact that snuff bottles has been found in archaeological excavations in Egypt is just a further prove of the evidence that Egyptians did sail to America well before Columbus Grin Grin Grin Grin.
Kind regards
Giovanni

2  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: Egyptian bottle on: August 20, 2017, 08:46:50 am
Dear Rube,

      It could have been purchased in the markets of Cairo  at any time, but we get no more reports of snuff bottles found in pyramids after 1880.
Best,
Joey
3  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: Ye bottle? on: August 20, 2017, 08:41:02 am
Dear Rube,

     That's great!
The cyclical dates are not that hard - there are 10 characters on the right side, which are each reproduced 6 times; and 12 characters on the left side, which are each reproduced 5 times. And by and large, one can easily differentiate the characters from each other (the 'ding' looks like a 'T'; the 'yi' looks like a 'Z'; the 'jia' looks like a 'plus sign' in a box on top of a stick; etc. incidentally, these are a few of the memnonics tricks I use to remember; though with Ding, I also simply remember how to write 'Ding Erzhong'  Grin).
Best,
Joey
4  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Micro incised ivory bottle. on: August 20, 2017, 06:52:23 am
Dear Adrian,
 
      I love the parrot and the side with the two ladies, but the way the artist screwed up the symmetry of the lines of characters, disturbs me. And the fact that the pendent leaf design doesn't go all around the neck, also.
Best,
Joey
5  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: Techniques for blown glass snuff bottles on: August 20, 2017, 06:48:28 am
Dear Giovanni,

      Thank you for sharing this.
Best,
Joey
6  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: Ye bottle? on: August 20, 2017, 06:45:50 am
Dear Rube,

      Somehow I missed this thread before.
In 2015, I bought a bottle from Clare Chu, which was signed Ye Zhongsan like this one, from YZS the Elder, dated 1926 that was bought in 1926 by a Jewish collector from Chicago. His family owned it till July 2015, when Clare's Asian Art Studio bought it; and I bought it in Oct. 2015.

    It's wonderful that you have a bottle that has been in your family since a few months after it was painted. And a very fine example, as well.
Best,
Joey
7  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Glass Snuff Bottles / Re: Egyptian bottle on: August 20, 2017, 06:39:25 am
Dear Rube,

     Yes, the 'Jew Guru' has the answer!  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Seriously, though: from the 1840s/1850s, thanks to steamships and serious Western Powers like England, France and Germany enforcing the peace in concert and sometimes control of the Ottoman Empire, people of more modest, though still substantial, means, were able to emulate the seriously rich and go on a grand tour of the Ancient World (The Middle East, including what're now Turkey and Egypt; what's now Israel with the liberated territories; what are still Lebanon and Jordan; and what were till recently Syria and Iraq.), formerly all in the Ottoman Empire.

    Assorted lords and ladies had brought home to the territories of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland souvenirs - antiquities from these ancient civilizations.  So the middle class 'punters' wanted to, as well.

     Whether these late Daoguang/Xianfeng period bottles were made in Jingdezhen to be sold in Egypt as 'genuine antiquities' (they do look a bit like Egyptian Faience pottery), between 1840 and 1855, or between 1865 and 1880 (one doesn't hear of these bottles being brought back after 1880) or were just sold there as being in 'Egyptian taste', they were readily available in the markets of Egypt and were 'seeded' in pyramids, to be 'found' by gullible tourists who then paid a generous 'baksheesh' (tip/bribe) to the 'guide' who enabled them to take home a 'treasure from ancient Egypt'.

      It was a tip for having  'enabled' the tourist to find a 'genuine antiquity'; it was a bribe to convince the 'guide' not to hand the tourist over to the authorities for 'looting'.

     Just as officers in wartime don't 'loot' - they 'liberate'; soldiers loot... Roll Eyes Shocked Wink. In the same way, while  the Aristocracy don't 'loot', they 'acquire';  the 'punters' may be accused of it.

     Best,
Joey
     
8  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Organic, Metal, and Embellished Bottles / Re: Rattan or Sea Amber? on: August 20, 2017, 05:58:13 am
Dear Rube,
 
     In the 1970s, Y. F. Yang was selling bottles similar to yours, called  'sea root', supposedly from trees that had been submerged in water for millions of years and had undergone some chemical transformation partial or total, like that of amber. It was similar to 'root amber', but not as fossilized.

     In root amber, the different minerals that were in the root give the different colours to the amber. I used to have 2 root amber bottles. One is illustrated in my 1987 catalogue (#69). It is hard to see, but the material has an assortment of shades of yellow, brown and red.

     Best,
Joey
9  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles / Early, Middle and Modern Period Bottles 内画鼻烟壶/早期,中期,现代 / Re: Wang Ru Ting on: August 20, 2017, 05:49:19 am
Dear George,

      I'd not heard of Wang Ruting till you posted him.
Best,
Joey
10  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Meeting with fellow collector in Perth on: August 20, 2017, 05:45:15 am
Dear Inn Bok,

      I'm glad you got to share bottles with our fellow collector in Perth.
The bottles posted are very interesting.
Best,
Joey
11  Miscellaneous / Special Events, and Snuff Bottle News / Re: Joe Grimberg on: August 20, 2017, 05:38:46 am
Dear Richard,

      Thank you. I did not know that Joe z"l had passed away.
Baruch Dayan Emet (Bless G-D, The True Judge).

       Joe had been a good friend, and after first meeting him in 1978 at Magain Avoth Synagogue on Shabbat while praying, I visited his home in 1981, and after; I would meet him at conventions, till 2009 I think.

        I was not able to attend his auction in NYC, sabotaged by a certain dealer, since Joe spurned his advances to 'curate' Joe's sale; Joe's response had been,"My collection's quality speaks for itself". It should have, if that shameful person, unduly respected in my opinion in the ICSBS, had not behaved disgustingly and badmouthed a superb collection owned by a truly honest, ethical and kind man, hurting him financially and insulting his good name.

       And I believe that Joe stopped attending conventions at least partially, because of that behavior by that person.

       May Joseph Grimberg's memory be for a blessing, and may his family know no more sorrow.
Best,
Joey
12  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: August 15, 2017, 01:21:13 pm
Dear Rube,

    Please don't misunderstand me. The stopper may well have been matched to the bottle by the first owner of the bottle.
We just don't have any way to document or prove it, unless the bottle was described in the Imperial Palace Workshops paperwork, where they did describe snuff bottles in great detail, and also the stoppers that were matched to them.

   But it is often hard to find the bottles, much less match them up to written descriptions.
Best,
Joey
13  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: August 15, 2017, 01:17:45 pm
Dear Adrian,

     Thank G-D for reality.
Best,
Joey


Dear Joey,

In their own minds yes, in reality no.

Regards, Adrian.
14  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Porcelain and Yixing Chinese Snuff Bottles 瓷器和宜兴鼻烟壶 / Re: Porcelain spade snuff bottle on: August 15, 2017, 03:11:51 am
Dear Adrian,

    You've confused me now. What did you mean by "better than a lot of the real marks !" 
All genuine Imperial marks are at least as good as this one.

Did you mean non-Imperial marks which are contemporary with the correct period?
In that, you might be correct, though I doubt it.

If you meant non-Imperial Qianlong nianzhi marks produced in the 19th C., I would definitely agree with you.

Best,
Joey
15  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: August 15, 2017, 03:04:14 am
Dear Adrian,

     I have 2 'snowflake' questions for you.
1. What if someone has decided that he's the re-incarnation of the Qianlong Emperor, and therefore the source of many of our best bottles?
2. What if some woman who knows basically nothing about snuff bottles, feels she can 'channel' the Dowager Empress Cixi?

  Would they trump 'Fourth Generation Collector'?   Shocked Roll Eyes Grin
Best,
Joey
16  Collections / Research / Technical / Re: Mineral checklist for snuff bottles on: August 15, 2017, 02:58:39 am
Darn... Cry Roll Eyes Grin
Joey



I'm just a second generation collector, and my late mom collected ancient glass from Israel and the Middle East, 1,000 to 3,200 years old, not snuff bottles. 


Dear Joey,
     Collecting other things doesn't count. It's got to be snuff bottles.  Grin

Best,
Tom
17  The Gathering / The Lounge / Re: Qing imperial birthday celebration themed exhibition on: August 14, 2017, 03:58:52 pm
G-D Willing.
Joey


Dear Samson,

     Thank you for the 'personal invitation' [ Roll Eyes Grin Wink].
I'd NOT seen the thread before. I don't know why I don't always get notified of new posts or threads.
Wonderful show. Till when is it on? I'm hoping to visit HKG in mid-Jan.2018.
Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

You're most welcome! I'm still waiting for the chance to visit the Mental Cultivation Palace exhibition that is held concurrently with this one at a different museum. I wish you could see these amazing exhibitions. Unfortunately, they are here only for 3 months. I hope there will be an exhibition as worth seeing as these ones by the time you visit HK in coming Jan.

Best,
Samson
18  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Gem, Stone, Rock and Fossil / Re: Crystal Clear on: August 14, 2017, 03:57:27 pm
Dear Rube (4-G sound like a cell.phone!  Shocked),

    I agree with Tom as to dating, and also whether the stopper is 'original'. That is a loaded term. It was not made in the same workshop as the bottle, but stoppers were not usually made in the same workshop as the bottles.

    One would buy or commission a bottle, then take it to the shops selling stoppers, buy a spoon from another place, and then have the stopper seller get the stopper, spoon and cork (or thinly-cut wrapped cork, or possibly thinly-cut wrapped leather) put together. And this was all after the buyer had commissioned a special padded box for his new treasure.
Best,
Joey
19  Collections / Research / Technical / Re: Mineral checklist for snuff bottles on: August 14, 2017, 03:49:04 pm
Dear Rube,
 
    I'm envious. I'm just a second generation collector, and my late mom collected ancient glass from Israel and the Middle East, 1,000 to 3,200 years old, not snuff bottles. 
Best,
Joey
20  Public Forum Categories and Boards / Porcelain and Yixing Chinese Snuff Bottles 瓷器和宜兴鼻烟壶 / Re: Porcelain spade snuff bottle on: August 14, 2017, 03:43:23 pm
Dear Adrian,

     I agree with the opinion that the bottle is modern, but they got the Qianlong mark down perfectly.
Now if they knew how to give it realistic wear, it would be scary.
Best,
Joey
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