Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to share a bottle I purchased recently.  I recognize the artist as Mu Peng, I think, thanks to Bill Patrick's site, as there is a very similar bottle in his catalog.  I was drawn to the crispness of the vessels adorning the bottle, as well as the calligraphy. 

Can anybody translate the bottle for me, date it, as well as identify the subjects?
As always, any help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Rube.

Dear Rube,
it seems to me that there is no date in the inscription, but our Chinese speaking friends will be more precise on this.
The side shown in the first image is representing a 18th century vase, looking by the general shape and motif, although it is not clear of what type, because of the strange red ground and the decoration in relief.
Instead, on the other side there is a fine, and sought-after Tang style Sancai water pot.
Nice looking bottle!
Kind regards
Giovanni

Giovanni,
Thanks for your response! I like the bottle too, it’s unlike anything else I have. The still life quality and calligraphy appeals to me. When I first saw it, I knew I’d seen something like it before. So, I scoured Bill Patrick’s website, and came across the exact bottle by Mu Peng, only to find that the signatures don’t match. No matter, I still like it! Apparently, this signature says Mo Shi and it was painted during the year of the water rat (1972) which is impossible. So, I’m guessing this bottle was paying homage to somebody else’s work? Thanks Pin for helping with the translation.
Cheers,
Rube

Hi Rube,

Wang Xisan painted a series of bottles of "Sagacious Monarchs of Chinese Dynasties and National Treasures" with different Emperors on each bottle and on the reverse of each bottle a national treasure that was representative of each Emperors reign, for instance a censor, a ewer, a bronze statue etc. Before he painted that series he had painted others with items from the Shanghai museum, one at least finished off by Wang Guanyu.

I have 2 bottles that I have posted on here that were painted by Lu Yanhong with similar subjects which I love.

Regards, Adrian.

Adrian,
I saw some of those bottles posted in A New Look... I love the theme.  One thing I like about Snuffbottlecollector.com site is the artist write ups from I’m guessing CIPMA. I like tracing an artist back and seeing influences from their masters and teachers. Wang Xisan did this style,like youre referring to, then his student Ai Qi, among others, then Mu Peng who studied under him. I can only guess Mo Shi is a student of Mu Peng, because the year of the water rat was 1972, and that happens to also be the year Mu Peng was born. The guy I bought this bottle from said he bought it in China around 20 years ago. Can you tell me which thread shows some of those bottles you posted? I think my favorite is the one Wang Xisan did with all the painted snuff bottles!
Cheers,
Rube

Hi Rube,

It's in this section.

2 x Lu Yanhong bottles from Bill

Regards, Adrian.

Dear Adrian,
your native language is English, right? I must also say that in my not competent opinion (my poor English is self-learned) I always noted your particular use of the language, which denotes a high level of culture, I think.
Now, can you explain what is a mystery to me? I always noted how many native English speakers do say “censor” in place of “censer”. Why that?
It is absolutely strange; a censor is a censor, a censer is a censer. There must be a reason, because it is a very, very common mistake.
Kind regards
Giovanni

Adrian,

Those detailed bottles are wonderful!  I would have piggybacked onto your thread yet again, had I noticed it.  It's interesting to note that you and I share some of the same taste in bottles, as I learned from your thread you also bought a bottle from Jin Huijie.  I like her work as well!  Last year when I first found this Forum and Bill's site, I came across some of her bottles which I thought were for sale, but had already been sold.  Probably to you!

Cheers,

Rube.

Dear Adrian,

      A censer is a vessel, sometimes covered, in which incense is burned, often as part of a religious ceremony.

     A censor is someone who checks material and suppresses whatever is offensive to the mores of the community, etc.

     You might want to correct the spelling of the censer you describe in your post.
Best,
Joey

Joey,

I never mentioned the word censor or censer, I think it was Adrian.

Cheers,

Rube.

Dear Joey and Giovanni,

I see my incorrect spelling of censer has been censored  ;D

Nothing gets past you too.

Regards, Adrian

Hi Rube,

It was only the one Jin Huijie that I bought and I don't like it as much as the Lu Yanhong bottles.

I would like to find a Zhang Ren Jie who painted from a series of Goddess paintings that I have in two Su embroideries.

Regards, Adrian.

Or the two of us, either.  ::) ;D Joey

Adrian,
I’m not familiar with that particular artist, but good luck in your quest!

Cheers,
Rube

Dear Adrian: “I see my incorrect spelling of censer has been censored”. Absolutely brilliant! Just to confirm the opinion I have of you.
BTW, what amaze me is the fact that it is a so common mistake. Yesterday I did a search in Goteborg’s posts. Censers has been mentioned more than 200 times. Among them about one third has been called “censor”.
Kind regards
Giovanni

This is very strange indeed... It is not among the words I picked to be censored.. 

A mystery :)

Dear Rube,

Your inside painted bottle was by the artist with the pseudo-name Mo Shi 墨石 (Mo=black, Shi=stone) and he painted it in the province of Hebei which borders Beijing. The year of painting as written was Ren Zi (壬子) which is 1972. One side was painted the Qing Kangsi Style vase with lotus flower/twigs motifs, and the other side a Tang Sanacai waterpot.

Peter Bentley can shed light on the background of the artist.

Regards,
Inn Bok

Inn Bok,

Thank you so much for the translation, and with the help identifying the objects.  I was drawn to it because of the water pot, which I think compliments my gourd bottle.  Am I correctly assuming that this bottle was not painted in 1972, even though that is what is written? And, that it is more contemporary than that?

Peter,
Are you familiar with this artist, who I incorrectly identified as Mu Peng?

Cheers,
Rube.

Dear Rube,

    'Compliments' or 'complements' your bottle?  ::) :o ;D
After I wrecked a tank during tank training in the IDF [Israeli Army], they sent me to teach English to IDF officers!  ::) ;)
Best,
Joey

Oops :o

Hi  Rube,

Mu Peng is the  pen name  of  Guo Chunxiang.

He  is  most well  known for  his  calligraphy   bottles   (you  can find  several  wonderful  examples  on Bill  Patrick's  site)

But  he  also  did  indeed  paint a  series  of  bottles   like  yours  with   Chinese vases, urns  , censers  ( not  censors  ;D  )  and I have  a  lot  of  examples  those bottles  in my data  base.

I  cannot  find  Mo Shi  in my data  base

So, based  on the   facts  you  report:

1. Bottle  painted  in  1972
2. Bottle  bought in China  over 20 years  ago

also the  fact that :

3. Mo Shi  sounds  like a  pen name -not a  real  name

I'm guessing  that  Mo  Shi  was a  student   artist  in the  early  part  of the  Modern  era  who  used the name  Mo Shi  on his  student / practice  bottles,    because  those    vase/ urn/ censer  type  bottles  are a  very common  theme on  VMIPBs, especially for  students   because  they  are relatively  easy  to paint   using  a  book  as  the  master from which to  copy ( sort
 of "still  life" )    and there's plenty  of space  to  write  some  practice  wide-spaced   calligraphy .

The   key  question  is  therefore  whether  "Mo  Shi"  was   temporary  student  name  of a  more  well-known  artist  who went  on to  greater  fame  later and  started  using his  real name,  OR  whether  "Mo Shi"   dropped  out   of  IPB  painting  and  vanished.

Certainly  I can't  find  his name  in my data  base. Usually  - but  by no means  always -  when  a  famous   artist  used another  name  name (some used several pen names at different  stages  of their  careers) I  have been  able to  trace  all the  names to the same  artists and  and thus include  all the   cross-references  in my  data  base.

However,    very much   doubt if this  bottle  was  painted  by a  student  of  Mu Peng  if it was  bought  20 years  ago because Mu Peng  was  born  in  1976 ,  so the  earliest  he  would  have been  mature  enough  to take  on his  own students  would  be  at age  40 -ish  =  which  would be  about   now.

Anyway - that's my  2  cents  worth.

Cheers

Peter

PS:  Buy a  copy of  DB  - it  will  help  you a  lot  with your research  on VMIPBs !   :)

Thanks Peter for digging into the DB !

Dear Rube,

In the bottle, the two  chineses characters indicating the year painted could be 壬子 （ 1972）or if the artist's
brush stroke were a bit off, 壬午（2002）。If it is 2002, then Mo Shi could possibly be a student painter of Mu Peng going by Peter's reasoning  :D :D.

My speculation.

Inn Bok

According to the painting style and shape of the bottle, the bottle should be painted in 2002 instead of 1972. Its well painted, but it could be a student bottle at that time.

Best,

Steven

Inn Bok, Peter, and Steven,

I agree with you guys that it's more likely 2002.

Thanks for your feedback,

Rube.