Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Public Forum Categories and Boards => All Other Snuff Bottles and Containers => Topic started by: Wattana on August 28, 2017, 01:57:23 am



Title: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on August 28, 2017, 01:57:23 am
The Mongolian Connection: A Living Tradition of Snuff-Taking Rediscovered

This article was first published in the Journal of the International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society, in the Autumn 2012 issue, based on a lecture delivered at the Siam Society some years earlier.


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: George on August 28, 2017, 03:24:16 am
This is wonderful Tom..

Give me a couple days and will gladly add it to the forum's sidebar..



Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on August 28, 2017, 03:30:55 am
Dear Tom,

     A great article. I remember reading it in 2012, and wanting to fly to Ulaan Baator to buy a new hardstone bottle or three. Though not with those stoppers; something quiet in a carved Coral, perhaps, to set off the plain bottle. I wasn't impressed by the carved examples.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on August 28, 2017, 04:09:36 am

I remember reading it in 2012, and wanting to fly to Ulaan Baator to buy a new hardstone bottle or three.
 

Thanks George.

Dear Joey,

I believe there are still direct flights to UB from Singapore, Seoul and Beijing. Unless you want to try Trans-Siberian Railways.....   ;D

Best,
Tom


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on August 29, 2017, 10:00:35 am
Dear Tom,

     No need. Giovanni so generously gave me the wonderful gift of the "Burning Bush" hardstone snuff bottle, and I already had a modern (at least 16 years old, now!  ::) :D)
Art Deco style quartz snuff bottle.

     So I give out sandalwood snuff in one, and strawberry snuff in the other, in my Synagogue on Shabbat (When Religious Jews who can't smoke on Sabbath, satisfy their nicotine habit with snuff up the nose instead of smoke in the lungs.).

      Thanks for the travel help. But all things being equal, I'll stick to HK, Bangkok, Singapore, Taipei, and Kyoto, as tourist destinations in East Asia.  :D

     Best,
Joey


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: George on August 30, 2017, 11:31:16 pm
Tom.. I have not forgot about ya... My head has not been in the game past days..


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on August 31, 2017, 01:03:09 am
No hurry George....it can wait.


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Jungle Jas on August 31, 2017, 03:15:44 am
Tom, may I add my thanks,  very enlightening.  ;)


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Rube on August 31, 2017, 07:07:04 am
Tom,
Ditto Jason.

Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: forestman on August 31, 2017, 09:09:05 am
Hi Tom,

Thanks for posting this. There are two You tube clips where you see inside a Mongolian snuff bottle makers workshop but sadly you don't see anything of the manufacturing process of note.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on August 31, 2017, 10:01:48 pm
Hi All,
    Thanks for your comments.

Adrian,
    I have seen those You Tube clips too. Frustratingly (apart from the commentary being in Mongolian, with no subtitles) the video clips barely touch on the carving and hollowing processes.

Tom


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: OIB on September 03, 2017, 05:17:11 am
Tom,

I missed reading your post earlier. It is very informative and enlightening ! Thank you.
It leads me to think of a parallel link -- would be nice if someone has written on the living habit of snuff taking in modern Europe, albeit from snuff boxes, and the development, if any, in the design and manufacturing of snuff boxes.

Your article causes my mind to go back to late 1980's when I was watching a German snuffing right in front of me. He was the then retired German Chancellor, Helmut Schmidt. He was in Singapore and during his visit he visited the German-Singapore Institute where I was the Singaporean director then. This joint-government project was approved by him and the late Mr. Lee Kuan Yew. I was hosting him lunch together with my Chairman. I have not started collecting snuff bottle then. Otherwise I would have taken out my bottle to share with him ( from 1991, I did carry a bottle a day to my office, Tom. I stopped the habit some three to four years later ! )

Inn Bok


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on September 03, 2017, 02:43:58 pm
Dear Inn Bok,

      Facinating story!
I didn't know Helmut Schmidt snuffed. And my assumption was that only Orthodox Jews snuffed today, and usually just on Sabbaths and Holy Days when one was not allowed to 'light up' a cigarette.

     Best,
Joey


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: samsonlzj on September 03, 2017, 07:29:47 pm
Dear Inn Bok,

      Facinating story!
I didn't know Helmut Schmidt snuffed. And my assumption was that only Orthodox Jews snuffed today, and usually just on Sabbaths and Holy Days when one was not allowed to 'light up' a cigarette.

     Best,
Joey

Dear Inn Bok, Joey,

I didn't know that too so I went on to search for pictures at once and found the following. Seems like he'd been using a contemporary looking snuff box to store snuff. Why didn't any Chinese official or diplomat he may have possibly met introduce the snuff bottle to him I wonder... ::)

By the way, I heard a local antiques store owner said that in Hong Kong, there're some older generation Chiuchow people (a.k.a. Tiaochiu in their own dialect) who are still snuffing too.

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on September 03, 2017, 09:32:29 pm
Dear Inn Bok,

I am delighted to hear that you used to carry a snuff bottle around on a daily basis! It really does add another dimension to them. It did for me, at least.

That is interesting what you said about whether snuff-taking is a living tradition in the West. I think it is still quite popular in Germany and Austria. When visiting Innsbruck a few years ago I was walking past a tobacconist shop with my family when I stopped dead in my tracks. In the display window, alongside pipes and cigar cases, were several snuff bottles. I immediately went inside to examine them more closely. They were mostly made of salt-glaze pottery, of the type used for making German beer steins, and with similar decorative motifs. The shop assistant confirmed that the snuff bottles came from Bavaria, where they "still make them for local snuff-takers". They cost just a few Euros, and were perfectly functional.

Tom


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on September 04, 2017, 04:41:25 pm
Dear Tom,

     Did you buy any snuff?
Joey


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Wattana on September 04, 2017, 10:25:54 pm
Dear Joey,

I have bought snuff, but not on that occasion. I did however buy a bottle from that shop. It was not one of the salt-glaze ones, which I didn't find very attractive, but a porcelain one with an enameled design of a steinbock (Alpine ibex) on it! I posted it on this forum a few years ago.
 
Best,
Tom


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: OIB on September 06, 2017, 10:16:52 am
Dear all,

Just some correction to my date. My close encounter with H. Schmidt was before 1986 and not late 1980's as mentioned
in my earlier post.

Tom,

On one of my trips to Germany, I did buy a little package that contains a modern procelain snuff bottle. I will post it
when I return to Singaapore later this month.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on September 07, 2017, 06:42:37 am
Dear Tom,
     That rings a bell.
Best,
Joey



Dear Joey,

I have bought snuff, but not on that occasion. I did however buy a bottle from that shop. It was not one of the salt-glaze ones, which I didn't find very attractive, but a porcelain one with an enameled design of a steinbock (Alpine ibex) on it! I posted it on this forum a few years ago.
 
Best,
Tom


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on September 07, 2017, 06:44:35 am
Dear Samson,

    Who are the 'Tiaochiu' people?
I don't recognise the name. Are they like the Hakka, who I have heard about?
Best,
Joey



Dear Inn Bok,

      Facinating story!
I didn't know Helmut Schmidt snuffed. And my assumption was that only Orthodox Jews snuffed today, and usually just on Sabbaths and Holy Days when one was not allowed to 'light up' a cigarette.

     Best,
Joey

Dear Inn Bok, Joey,

I didn't know that too so I went on to search for pictures at once and found the following. Seems like he'd been using a contemporary looking snuff box to store snuff. Why didn't any Chinese official or diplomat he may have possibly met introduce the snuff bottle to him I wonder... ::)

By the way, I heard a local antiques store owner said that in Hong Kong, there're some older generation Chiuchow people (a.k.a. Tiaochiu in their own dialect) who are still snuffing too.

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: samsonlzj on September 08, 2017, 12:32:00 am
Dear Samson,

    Who are the 'Tiaochiu' people?
I don't recognise the name. Are they like the Hakka, who I have heard about?
Best,
Joey



Dear Inn Bok,

      Facinating story!
I didn't know Helmut Schmidt snuffed. And my assumption was that only Orthodox Jews snuffed today, and usually just on Sabbaths and Holy Days when one was not allowed to 'light up' a cigarette.

     Best,
Joey

Dear Inn Bok, Joey,

I didn't know that too so I went on to search for pictures at once and found the following. Seems like he'd been using a contemporary looking snuff box to store snuff. Why didn't any Chinese official or diplomat he may have possibly met introduce the snuff bottle to him I wonder... ::)

By the way, I heard a local antiques store owner said that in Hong Kong, there're some older generation Chiuchow people (a.k.a. Tiaochiu in their own dialect) who are still snuffing too.

Best,
Samson

Dear Joey,

I misspelled it. It's supposed to be "Teochew" ("Chiuchow" in Cantonese and "Chaozhou" in Mandarin). They are Han Chinese who mainly settle around the coastal region in the Northeast of Guangdong Province. In Hong Kong and other South East Asian countries, apart from Hakka, Hokkien and some other Han Chinese groups from Southern China, there are also sizeable Teochew diasporas. Despite their major area of settlement lies within today's Guangdong Province, their dialect - the Teochew dialect, has more similarity with the Hokkien dialect (Fujian dialect, spoken in Xiamen) than Cantonese.

I remember Curt mentioning that he is a Teochew when we met him last time.

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: The Mongolian Connection
Post by: Joey on September 11, 2017, 01:45:36 pm
Dear Samson

      Thank you. I did not remember that (Curt's stating he was Teochew).
Best,
Joey