Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Dear all,

I present to you here a cinnabar lacquer snuff bottle in my collection that is believed to be of 19th century.

Though the work on the bottle may not be that great, it seems quite special to me in the sense that even its base has been finished with carved lacquer, and the shape of the bottle is also one I haven't seen before (in such material). This is also my first ever bottle with a good provenance.

Provenance:
Sotheby's NY, 21 March 2015
Property from the Collection of Lolo Sarnoff. 

Best,
Samson

very special bottle.... first time I see such a bottle...even the base of a cinnabar decorated.

Congratulations!!!

Pin

Hi Samson,

The diaper pattern on the base may suggest it's Japanese made. There is a tendency for them to decorate every surface of an object. I have a beautifully lacquered small pin tray and the underside of it is nearly as highly worked as the upper side even though it would not normally be seen.

Regards, Adrian.

One of the nicest cinnabar bottles I have seen...

A special one !

Dear Pin, Adrian and George,

Thanks! Well Adrian, I never thought that it could possibly be Japanese made, so that's interesting to know. I'm impressed by the attention given to the hidden details by the makers of objects like this.

And one thing, I wonder if it's normal for cinnabar lacquer bottles to have a strong odor. It resembles the odor of oil paint to me.

Best,
Samson

Snuff bottle by itself should not have any odor..... tobacco like tea leaves absorb any odor in the surrounding, and their taste or fragrance will be compromised... not a good sign if it has oil paint smell....

Pin

You've got a point Pin. But I wonder if cinnabar or lacquer itself has any odor?...

Best,
Samson

Lovely bottle! Congratulations Samson!

Hi Samson,

An interesting bottle,but I do have some concerns about the bottle after you mentioned the oder small of the  bottle . Normally the new cinnabar bottle has a strong smell, after years the smell will fade away.that is actually a sign to judge a cinnabar ware or any lacquer wares . Also the horizontal line on the bottle also not a good sign ,I can't judge more without more detailed photos,.But the bottle looks suspicious to me . I wish I am totally wrong. If you can have more photos I would love to have more insights if I can.

Best,

Steven

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your comment. The smell is noticeable when I stick my nose to the bottle to smell it. I don't do it this much these days as I read that cinnabar contains toxic mercury... ::)

With horizontal lines, did you mean the horizontal pattern on the upper part of the bottle? Please let me know which part of the bottle you wish to see detail pics for, I'll try to take it.

Best,
Samson

Hi Samson,

I wonder if Steven is referring to the horizontal line you can see in the last picture of the group.

It seems to be a line depicting a change between land and water in that the diaper design changes slightly from below the line to above the line.

It looks odd in that the line seems to run at a slight angle and it makes the composition look slightly awkward because it could have been left out and made the design cleaner although that is just my opinion.

Regards, Adrian.

Oh that line!  :D

I too think it's done to depict the change between land and water in the landscape. The two parts are of different level (or stratum)...

Thanks Adrian!

Best,
Samson

Yes, Adrian read my mind.:)

Waiting for more detailed photos Samson.:)

Steven

Dear Samson,
the finish of the ridges that are framing the two scenes and the base are not smooth, they look quite crude in the pictures.
I wish to be wrong but my feeling is that this bottle is not old. And I am unsure that it is really lacquer and not resin. You could try the hot pin test.
Kind regards
Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,

Thanks! Yes I agree that the finishing is not very fine. What is the hot pin test? Could you explain more?

Dear Steven,

I'll make some better shots when I get some free time!

Best,
Samson

Congrats nice bottle! Does look a bit different to other cinnabar examples I've seen as well. I was wondering if the line across the middle was a mistake at first or a scratch. Particularly like the 'wan' characters I believe they are called carved into the foot.

Dear Samson,
the hot pin test consists in choosing a hided or recessed area where you can try to penetrate the tip of a hot needle. If the bottle is not lacquer it should melt and emanate a strong plastic smell.
To be clear, by finish I was meaning polishing.
Dear Luke, what I see on the base are swastikas, I didn't mention it before, but I have never seen the swastikas pattern interlaced with a flowers pattern. I mean swastikas and flowers together.
Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,

It is an unusual combination... i didn't notice the flowers! I've haven't seen that combination before either. I do like the pattern that is created though...

Best
Luke