Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

When I purchased this bottle, it was "attributed" to the Tsuda Family Workshop. Is there any information out there to determine if it is actually Tsuda? The workmanship is lovely and is in pristine condition. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Toni-Lee

Hi Toni-Lee

Very nice bottle ...

Thanks for sharing

Pin

Here is a link that tells in the foot notes the difference between Chinese and Japanese embellished bottles.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21785/lot/8066/

I really have no experience with these but yours does look Japanese to me..

Thank you for sharing the bottle !

Hi Toni-Lee,

Another link to a Tsuda embellished bottle.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19305/lot/108/

The name had seemed Japanese to me so I checked all my Inro books as many Inro were embellished in various ways and artists working on these could well have embellished snuff bottles but I can't find any reference to a Tsuda Family there. That may be because George's reference shows they were working more recently.

Regards, Adrian.

Dear Toni-Lee

     WOW!!!
Yes, that is definitely a Tsuda Family embellished Nephrite bottle! I'm jealous - I've always wanted one, and so far haven't been successful.

      Even from the pictures you've posted, I can see it is 'right'. The bottle looks ca. 1800-1860 and the embellishment is ca. 1900-1940.
 
      Consider me impressed...
By the way,  the MFA-Boston will be having an exhibition on BAPO, in 2017, and I will be loaning 2 examples from my collection.
Best,
Joey

I too believe the embellishment on the bottle is Japanese.  I have seen a few jade bottles that were later embellished by the Tsuda Family. I am not sure if yours is "in the manner of Tsuda Family" or actually done by that workshop. It is hard for me as a new collector to tell from a photo. I look forward to some of the more experienced collectors weighing in one this one.  There was one that  recently sold at Christie's NYC Sept 14, 2016.  It was Lot 475.  That may be of help to you.  Very pretty bottle Toni-Lee!

Great!  Now a MOST experienced collector has weighed in!   It looks like its the real deal for sure. 

I hope I don't seem negative in any way as I am a fan of this bottle but the rendering of the foliage of the tree and the gold cloud ? seem to be a little crude in execution. There is little to compare it to at present to see how it fits with other Tsuda works.

Regards, Adrian.

And colour me green with envy, Jo!  ::) ;D

    Which is sort of shameful, since I have almost 70 Jade SBs, and the vast majority are 18th C. I went after a few Tsuda Family bottles from the O'Dell Collection in a Paris auction in Dec. 2015 (barely a month after the Islamist murder outrages there), but they were badly damaged, so my good friends Clare Chu, Laurence Souksi and Gayle Gray Laverlochere convinced me not to even bid on them. :(

   Toni-Lee's example looks pristine.
Best,
Joey

Dear Adrian,

     Please remember 2 things:
1. The scale of the bottle. You are seeing it 'blown up'.
2. The Tsuda family worked for the Chinese and Western markets, and they gave what the customer ordered.
   
    I have no problem attributing this to Tsuda, and I'd be prepared to buy it based on that, after getting a value from Clare or Marsha Vargas Handley, or Michael Hughes.
Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

If you access the link below you can double click on the main picture to enlarge it. The leaves on that Tsuda family bottle seem to be rendered with more detail than on Toni-Lee's bottle where the leaves seem to be formed with a single brush stroke and of a single colour. The leaves on this other bottle have an extra line in a different colour making them more 3 dimensional.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/chiswick-auctions/catalogue-id-srchis10143/lot-d771c5a9-e21d-410b-bf36-a4e501165a26

However, as you say, the Tsuda family were working in times where financial gain might outweigh artistic integrity.

Regards, Adrian.   

Dear Adrian,

       That example is even better, you are 100% correct. But they are both from the Tsuda Family. To put it simply, other than Tsuda, only one workshop was doing this type of work, for two reasons.
 1. there was not all that much demand
 2. while we think that since China and Japan were quite close to each other culturally and geographically, so that there should have been a lot of close economic relations; from the Japanese occupation of Manchuria in 1931 till the Tsuda family stopped producing these embellished bottles when their last market, the American one, stopped buying Japanese goods in late 1941, there were 'problems'.

    And many Japanese looked down on Chinese between 1911 and 1940 (and later), and refused to produce Chinese-style works (because there is no 'empty space' for the design to 'breathe'). And many Chinese looked down on the Japanese, of course.

   Interestingly, the Chinese on Taiwan [which was occupied by Japan in 1895, and 'returned' to China in 1945], were well treated by the Japanese for the whole of their colonial occupation. And to this day, Taiwanese Han Chinese who've been on the island for generations [as opposed to the vast majority of Han Chinese, who are 'transplanted Mainlanders'], are very pro-Japanese, and anti-PRC/CCP.

  Best,
Joey
   

Thank you all very much for your comments and information.  Your knowledge is formidable and very educational. I have been so very hopeful that this bottle was correct. I almost sold it in 1998, but I couldn't bring myself to let go of it. I've made many mistakes in letting go of bottles that I now wish I had. You are all very kind and made my day!

Toni-Lee

Believe me, Toni-Lee - To see a bottle of that quality, makes my day!

    Based on the example Adrian pointed out to me, which is of the Tsuda family's finest work, yours would be slightly lesser in quality; but certainly of a quality I myself would be thrilled to own.

    We all have regrets about bottles we did not buy but should have; or bottles we owned but sadly were tempted to part with. 
 
    All we can do is move on, and forget about them. C'est la vie.
Best,
joey