Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

The Gathering => The Lounge => Topic started by: cshapiro on January 13, 2017, 11:26:24 am



Title: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on January 13, 2017, 11:26:24 am
As promised here's my banana bottle!

I'm sure it's not supposed to be a banana - probably some kind of squash, but the coloring and shape can't be denied.

It reminds me of the warmth of summer, yummy things like banana pudding, and it's funny just because of the shape. So it may not be a "great" bottle, but to me... it's priceless!

(http://www.flashprodesign.com/images/banana.jpg)


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on January 13, 2017, 12:34:28 pm
Very nicely carved banded agate Cathy.. I think a seed pod.

Lovely indeed, and thank you for sharing !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on January 13, 2017, 12:39:40 pm
Dear Cathy,
   
     I agree with George. that looks like a very nice example.
is it well hollowed out (ie., enough to hold snuff)?
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on January 13, 2017, 09:11:45 pm
Oh thanks George and Joey! Yes, it is well hollowed up to the crook where it bends, so it does seem like a functional bottle.
I hope others will share their unusual/quirky bottles too on this Friday Fun thread!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on January 14, 2017, 05:33:15 am
Dear Cathy,
I don’t see the fun here, it is a nice bottle. The quality of the stand alone is speaking about the level of the bottle. Which is the size? The fact that you see it as just a fun bottle make me think that it has been cheap. If so, you have been lucky!
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on January 14, 2017, 06:45:37 am
Dear Cathy,

     So it is only hollowed roughly half its length? Because of the ease with with chalcedony/agate may be hollowed, I would have expected it to go to the end, or within 3-5 mm of it, anyway.
How long is the bottle, from mouth to tip?

    It still looks good, though. And I agree with Giovanni's comment re. the stand. Nicely done.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: AntPeople on January 14, 2017, 07:38:06 am
Hi Cathy

Nice bottle .... thanks for sharing.

I don't have any really odd shape bottle in my collection other than very few pebble shaped Jade and agate bottle, so I know very little about them.....anyway, are they expected to be hollowed till the end? or as far as a straight spoon can reached?

Thanks

Pin


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 14, 2017, 09:38:10 am
Cathy,

That's not a Friday Fun Bottle, it's far to good.

This IS a Friday Fun Bottle.

I present the "Fearsome Bear" bottle, please note I didn't add snuff to the description as it might have space for a small snort of snuff but that's it. Perhaps I could try and pass it off as a snuff bottle for someone trying to kick the habit but I doubt it.

Clearly Imperial and said by the seller to have been owned by Ho-shen so an absolute steal for the price I got it for.

I have little doubt that many will be very envious of this bottle and as such I have good news, there is one coming up at auction on live auctioneers in a few weeks. It's clearly a shameless copy of this priceless original though.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on January 14, 2017, 11:12:25 am
Giovanni, so happy to hear I am lucky! I can't find a reference and so have no idea of it's value, and yes I paid very little for it.

Joey, it is only hollowed to where it bends so only hollowed half way - but is hollowed well to the sides up to that point. It is difficult to measure because of the crook - if I measure just straight from bottom to top it's 5.5cm but measuring with a tape makes it 6.5cm long. The stand does seem custom made for it because it fits like a glove.

Pin, it is hollowed well enough for a small 3cm long spoon.

Adrian, I like your fun bottle "description" - thanks for playing! I have a lot of unusual bottles that I can't find references for and don't necessarily want to present them here as "serious" bottles - but interesting, curious ones - like the Alexandrite glass I shared before.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on January 14, 2017, 02:03:24 pm

I present the "Fearsome Bear" bottle, please note I didn't add snuff to the description as it might have space for a small snort of snuff but that's it. Perhaps I could try and pass it off as a snuff bottle for someone trying to kick the habit but I doubt it.

Clearly Imperial and said by the seller to have been owned by Ho-shen so an absolute steal for the price I got it for.


Cute display piece, but I do not see any Imperial connection.. 

Cathy, I do not think yours is old, but not so unusual for some display/cabinet bottles to be partly hollowed out, leaving the heavier mass at the lower part of the bottle to aid in balancing the piece. Nothing to do with being to difficult to hollow out further. I do like the stand very much.

I am curious if Tom is seeing your bottle. To be honest, I doubt the mineral of China origin. I think imported. Possibly from Mexico, Botswana, or Argentina are the only "banded type" agates with these orbs.

Curious if someone else might try to help correctly ID the mineral.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 14, 2017, 02:24:04 pm
Dear George,

I may have been somewhat hasty in my suggested provenance as a bottle from the Imperial Palace Workshops as a closer inspection of the previous buyers invoice for it shows it actually came from "The Imperial Palace Wok Shop" which is a Chinese take away in Swindon which has been owned by the Hoshen family for some time.

An easy mistake to make I feel.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on January 14, 2017, 04:10:07 pm
Dear Adrian,

      I am assuming that the whole "Imperial Palace... and Ho-Shen" becoming "Imperial Palace Wok Shop and Hoshen family" was a facetious attempt at humour. I know I was laughing!

Dear Cathy,

    Till I saw the the banding on the side, I thought it was a very good nephrite jade pebble bottle carved as a bean pod. But I still like it.
Best,
Joey


Dear George,

I may have been somewhat hasty in my suggested provenance as a bottle from the Imperial Palace Workshops as a closer inspection of the previous buyers invoice for it shows it actually came from "The Imperial Palace Wok Shop" which is a Chinese take away in Swindon which has been owned by the Hoshen family for some time.

An easy mistake to make I feel.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on January 14, 2017, 05:41:17 pm
Yes! Where is Tom? It would be great to get his opinion!

With Adrian just remember he said he wanted to make a snuff bottle out of his mother's hip after her surgery!
It STILL makes me laugh!  ;D

Adrian are you British? You have this Death at a Funeral, Midsomer Murders aura around you!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on February 24, 2017, 09:15:06 am
Is it only me that has bottles that qualify as Friday Fun bottles. Sadly I could keep this thread going for months but I'm happy to let others step into the Hall of Shame.

I sometimes buy inexpensive bottles just because they are a bit different and this is one.

Enamel over clear glass with enamel inside as well giving a 3 dimensional feeling. Clearly not old but quite well painted.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on February 24, 2017, 09:37:51 am
I think it is cool Charll..

Thank you for keeping this Friday Fun Bottle topic alive.. !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on February 24, 2017, 04:13:36 pm
Quote
I think it is cool Charll Adrian..

Thank you for keeping this Friday Fun Bottle topic alive.. !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on February 24, 2017, 06:43:11 pm
Quote
I think it is cool Charll Adrian..

Thank you for keeping this Friday Fun Bottle topic alive.. !

My bad !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on February 24, 2017, 09:12:47 pm
I seem to have altogether missed this thread before. Not sure how....
Oh well, roll on next Friday.   ;D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on February 25, 2017, 02:31:51 am
Charll,

I fully understand your not wanting to be associated with this bottle  :)

Tom,

Having seen your bottles I imagine this is akin to a classic car collector mistakenly wandering in to a second hand Ford dealers. Once you've seen these bottles you can't unsee them. Sorry.

Regards, Adrian. 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on February 27, 2017, 03:19:44 am

Tom,

Having seen your bottles I imagine this is akin to a classic car collector mistakenly wandering in to a second hand Ford dealers. Once you've seen these bottles you can't unsee them. Sorry.


 :D  :D  :D   I love the analogy Adrian...
But no apologies needed. It is always enjoyable to see bottles posted here, especially those with an Imperial Palace Wok Shop provenance!

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on February 27, 2017, 10:39:47 am
Hi  All, especially  Cathy

I  have missed  this  thread  before  but  I  will  now  join  and  post a  "fun" bottle  next  Friday (MY  TURN !)

Hey  -  life IS  fun !   :D   :D   :D 

Cheers

Peter


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on February 27, 2017, 10:46:31 am
How about a Monday night bottle? I thought I had seen it all:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322310953219

Now if they would have lit up the inside of the bottle, at least I would have been just a little more impressed...


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on February 27, 2017, 12:16:22 pm
Your right... If they would have made it so there was also a light inside, it would have been better !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on February 27, 2017, 09:41:07 pm
Thanks Pat,

You've just solved my 'what-to-give-friends-next-Christmas' problem.....!!!   ;D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on March 03, 2017, 02:19:06 pm
Well it's gone 8pm here in the UK so I have given Peter (or anyone else) the chance to step forward with a Friday Fun bottle but it looks like it's down to me again.

This is the result of an infliction termed "auction frustration" where every bottle you are interested in the well over a 100 offered from a European collection goes for more than you wanted them to and you end up buying something you hadn't even noticed when perusing the auction.

I think from an old thread I read that this type of Guangxu marked bottle was commissioned by the more scholarly customer and the calligraphy has some meaning to the owner. Any help with a translation would be appreciated although if it says "A souvenir from China" then please PM me to save me the public shaming.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on March 03, 2017, 06:34:42 pm
Interesting bottle Adrian..  Perfect for a Friday fun bottle !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on March 05, 2017, 10:58:45 pm
Porcelain imitating wood......perfect Friday fodder!

Thanks for posting!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: samsonlzj on March 05, 2017, 11:18:45 pm
Dear Adrian,

It's extracted from a Tang poem:

"八月長江去浪平,片帆一道带風輕"

It means "Calm is the wave of Yangtze in the month of August, tiny boats are sailing down the river as the mild wind blows."

Hope this helps you to appreciate your bottle even more.

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on March 06, 2017, 12:14:30 am
Hi Samson,

A wonderful verse. I'm curious why the artist didn't show a related theme in the landscape painting on the other side.

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on March 06, 2017, 03:51:30 am
Hi Samson,

Thank you for the translation. I'm with Tom in saying it doesn't seem to fit with the painting. If these types of bottles were commissioned by a scholarly type owner then I imagined it might relate to Mr X's mountain retreat where he found the peace beneficial to his study or something similar.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on March 06, 2017, 05:15:45 am
It is probable that this kind of bottle was turned out in fair quantities using a production line system. After the porcelain blanks arrived from the kilns someone would have created the wood effect background, leaving a white cartouche on each side. A calligrapher would have done the script on one side, then passed the bottle on to the next person, who did the painting on the reverse, before sending back to the kilns for a second firing. Each would have had a repertoire of themes and literary extracts to work from. And maybe once in a while they didn't pay too much attention, thus creating a mismatch. If philately is anything to go by this bottle could be worth a lot of money.  ;)

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on March 17, 2017, 10:19:59 am
Well it's Friday again so time to roll out another Friday fun bottle.

I'm finding these Dragon chasing a flaming pearl bottles a bit old hat, so went for something far less common.

I give you the "Dragon chasing his own arse" bottle.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on March 17, 2017, 04:06:26 pm

I give you the "Dragon chasing his own arse" bottle.


Love it !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Pat - 查尚杰 on March 17, 2017, 10:04:07 pm
Haha .. I wonder if he ate the flaming pearl... ;D :o


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on March 17, 2017, 10:09:04 pm
I think a better  title would  be "Trump  doing  what  Trump  does  best"  ;D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on March 17, 2017, 10:50:31 pm
hahaha Peter like your title

I think you promised a Friday fun bottle yourself!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on March 17, 2017, 11:09:41 pm
Hi Cathy

I did  -  but this week I was  trumped !

Cheers
Peter


Title: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on March 24, 2017, 07:38:36 am
Hi  All

Just to  let you  know  I am  making   great  progress   with  properly  editing, classifying   and    photo-shopping  all my bottles  pics  (with a great  help  from Geoff) 

They  should  all appear    within  a  few  months  on Bill  Patrick's  website  www.snuffbottlecollector.com

Meanwhile, here's, at last,  a Friday   Fun Bottle , as  promised to Cathy  et al       :D

Cheers

Peter


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on March 24, 2017, 10:15:05 am
hahahahaha! This is my favorite one yet!
What on earth is this? Is it inside painting in a natural crystal or is that confetti glued to the inside of glass? And what's up doc? That rabbit - I mean squirrel has rabbit ears! Or maybe there's a vacuum attached to the top and the little squirrel is about to get sucked out! hahahaha

Thanks for giving me a great big fun laugh on this Friday Peter!!!

I LOVE this bottle!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on March 24, 2017, 01:06:03 pm
Hi  Cathy,

Glad you  like  that bottle !  It's  THE  cutest and  sweetest in all my collection.  :D

It's  a  natural crystal  bottle with  almost  90%  inclusions (sort  of  white-ish/ gold flakes  - maybe    iron pyrites aka  "fools  gold" )

I attach a pic  of the  back side of the  bottle

The  artist  painted a  tiny  squirrel with  pointed  ears !   in the  only  free  space - in  fact very  difficult  to do  because of  the very  narrow  bottle  top opening (see the  tiny  stopper !)

But the   story  behind the  bottle  is even  funnier....

The  bottle  was painted  by Ma  Baoku  who was  one of the  very  first  Ji School  artists  I ever  got to know.

On my very  first  trip to  Hengshui  I  stopped  en route  by  Shijiazhuang  where  MBK lives  and went to his  home.  I actually saw that  bottle  in  progress  on his  work desk but I had  zero  interest  in it  because  I had no wish to  buy bottles in natural crystal with mineral inclusions

(At that  time, bottles  in natural crystal with  mineral inclusions were  all the rage  in Singapore  because  every  bottle  was  different  and therefore could  not be  copied  by a  young  student and passed  off as a work by a  Master : but  I did not like those kind of bottles  because I  felt that  I was  paying  more  for the  bottle itself  than for the  painting)

Then, about a year or two  later, after I had  bought  several  bottles  from MBK he  suddenly  offered me this  bottle  for a  price which, although  expensive my my  standards  at that time,   was  certainly less than the cost  of the bottle itself which he  would  have had to have paid to buy the  raw  bottle.

I figured  MBK  was  having a  hard time  and  was  short of  cash so I  agreed to buy the  bottle on the spot  at the  price  he  asked, without  any  negotiation.

Since then,  it  has become  one of my favourite bottles, both because  it's so  cute  and  because  of its  history. (MBK has been  through some  tough times  since then, but  we  will always be best friends)

And it's still my only  bottle in natural  crystal  with  mineral  inclusions

Cheers
Peter



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: NE collector on March 24, 2017, 01:52:11 pm
Hi Peter,

Your bottle is just plain wonderful! I LOVE IT. Highest marks on this one. One of the sweetest bottles I have seen, full of personality. Beatrice Potter would concur.

Best regards,

Toni-Lee


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on March 24, 2017, 04:51:17 pm
Hi Peter,

Thank you for saving me from putting up another of my dodgy bottles. Cute squirrel.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on March 24, 2017, 05:21:29 pm
Hey Peter,

The back is beautiful - glad you included a pic - looks like some moss agate going on there. A very interesting combination!

I really, really like this bottle!

What a pleasure it is to find happiness in a bottle!

 ;D
Cathy



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on March 24, 2017, 06:46:47 pm
Outstanding bottle !  Just so darn cute !

One of the finest brecciated inside painted bottles I can recall..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on March 31, 2017, 12:42:47 pm
Here is my Friday bottle which again was the result of simply needing a bottle fix  :D

20th, famille rose in the form of an old medicine bottle..

If someone can help with the poem and additional script, that would be great  :)



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on March 31, 2017, 02:47:37 pm
Nice one George! I know next to nothing about porcelain, so look forward to finding out about it!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on March 31, 2017, 03:29:19 pm
Nice one George! I know next to nothing about porcelain, so look forward to finding out about it!

It really is not anything special.. Not valuable.. I was just attracted to it.. 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Peter Bentley 彭达理 on June 02, 2017, 10:10:29 am
Hi All

Just to keep  this  happy  thread  alive,  I have  some  up-coming  REALLY   FUN  bottles   to  show

But I must  wait  a  couple of  weeks  to  get back to  HK  and  take  pics

Please  hang  in there....

Cheers

Peter


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: MingWu on June 02, 2017, 03:51:35 pm
Here is my Friday snuff bottle. It is my favorite one. Love the carving.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 02, 2017, 08:32:01 pm
Beautiful !!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on June 03, 2017, 10:36:59 am
Lovely bottle! Turquoise bottles so rarely appeal to me - and perhaps it's because the high relief is so common on them - but this one does. The carving seems to be very well done.

Thanks for posting!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 03, 2017, 01:36:48 pm
It is indeed nicely done ... 

What does the spoon look like if there is one.. ?


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on June 04, 2017, 03:34:06 am
I tend to like the plainer turquoise bottles more, but as a work or art this one does appeal.
Thanks for posting!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on June 04, 2017, 08:04:39 am
Dear Ming,

    We (SB collectors in the 1970s/1980s) used to call these 'cabinet bottles', since the ornate and deep relief carving made them very appealing to the Western tourists / collectors who were flocking to China in the period ca.1860-1920 on the steamship runs from Europe and North America (and Australia) to China and East Asia. These people would put them on display in cabinets on their return home.
Thank you for posting,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: MingWu on June 05, 2017, 11:03:40 am
George - There is no spoon. It is broken.
Joey - Thanks for the information. Yeah, it is for display only.
I purchased this one with others all together and this is my favorite.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on June 16, 2017, 11:15:08 am
This is a cheap bottle I bought about 3 years ago when I started collecting again. I think it was described as 19th Century but I took that with a pinch of salt as it didn't look it. It has been languishing in an unloved corner of my collection and I was considering selling it on.

I was surprised to see a pair of near identical bottles come up for sale at Sotheby's in Australia with a guide price of A$ 1,500-2,000 as a "Pair of unusual inscribed enamel snuff bottles". 6cm high. Identical calligraphy as well.

Needless to say I've become slightly more fond of it now.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 16, 2017, 01:32:25 pm
Interesting bottle Adrian.. I know little about porcelain, but would have agreed this to be fairly modern..

Very interesting about the Sotheby's auction.. Do you have a link to that ?

Here is my Friday bottle..

It stands just 2" tall less the wood stopper wrapped in cloth and glued to the porcelain top with wood spoon. Decorated with a little green enamel..  Thin wall with wide mouth..

It would be fun to know if there is any meanings to any of the six seals if someone can make them out..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on June 16, 2017, 03:26:35 pm
Hey George - cool bottle! I looked through the Handbook of Marks on Chinese Ceramics and couldn't find any of the marks.
By the way I think 2 and 3 are the same and 1, 5, and 6 are the same.

Looks like the original stopper too!

;)


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on June 16, 2017, 03:40:37 pm
So I tried to figure out Number 4 a little more and think it says:  Fú dian, Lao dian - the dian's appear to be two different ways to spell it - so my guess (probably really bad) is: "Good store, old store!"

Hahaha


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on June 16, 2017, 03:58:50 pm
Hi George,

https://www.sothebysaustralia.com.au/list/AU0815/153

Not porcelain but enamel on copper.

Sorry, can't help with the seals but like the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on June 16, 2017, 07:45:17 pm
Dear Adrian,
 
     A pity yours is damaged near the foot.
Before I tapped on the thumbnail, I also thought, "Hmm, nice B&W Porcelain...", but as soon as I did tap on it, it was obviously enamel on copper; but really a good imitation of B&W Porcelain.

   George, I wonder if yours is imitating a bound rice basket or other staple, and the seals are meant to imitate labels. But I'm not able to read them...
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 16, 2017, 10:18:49 pm
So I tried to figure out Number 4 a little more and think it says:  Fú dian, Lao dian - the dian's appear to be two different ways to spell it - so my guess (probably really bad) is: "Good store, old store!"

Hahaha

Thanks for giving it a whirl Cathy !  Yes, I looked through the seals as well with no luck.

Joey, that is a really wonderful thought about the basket.. I will go for that ! 



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: AntPeople on June 16, 2017, 10:50:22 pm
George's bottle is an imitation of a jar of rice wine

Some of the writing are :

1) 福兴老店...... Fu Xing Lao Dian, meaning an old shop with the name FuXing
2) 绍淅陳酒....... Old rice wine
3) 加重...... I am not too sure about this but it literally means weight is added... maybe it means the container has more wine.... which is really a good thing!

Pin


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: cshapiro on June 16, 2017, 11:09:17 pm
Hey!!! I got three characters right!!!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 16, 2017, 11:34:48 pm
George's bottle is an imitation of a jar of rice wine

Some of the writing are :

1) 福兴老店...... Fu Xing Lao Dian, meaning an old shop with the name FuXing
2) 绍淅陳酒....... Old rice wine
3) 加重...... I am not too sure about this but it literally means weight is added... maybe it means the container has more wine.... which is really a good thing!

Pin

Now how cool is that !

19th Pin ?



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on June 23, 2017, 12:52:08 pm
Sounds like a great tradition... !   

The pic is very large and bottles are out of focus..

Best to resize next time..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on June 25, 2017, 03:49:41 pm
Dear Rube,

    It sounds amazing! None of my siblings ever had any interest in snuff bottles.
We split my late mom's ancient glass collection 4 ways, so each child got an equal share (140-160 pieces each, but basically child got an equal share in periods and in value).

   Could you explain in more detail how you do it?
Thanks,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on June 25, 2017, 04:50:07 pm
Dear Rube,

    All I can say is that I envy you the history of being a 2nd generation 'legacy' collector, AS WELL AS these wonderful traditions!

   Thank you for sharing,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: pookles on July 25, 2017, 10:39:52 am
George in regard to your bottle posted in this thread please have a look here:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/snuff-bottles-from-mary-george-bloch-collection-part-iv-hk0524/lot.156.html (http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/snuff-bottles-from-mary-george-bloch-collection-part-iv-hk0524/lot.156.html)

Shame yours has rubbed a little, but very nice having the original stopper :)


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on July 25, 2017, 12:50:20 pm
George in regard to your bottle posted in this thread please have a look here:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/snuff-bottles-from-mary-george-bloch-collection-part-iv-hk0524/lot.156.html (http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/snuff-bottles-from-mary-george-bloch-collection-part-iv-hk0524/lot.156.html)

Shame yours has rubbed a little, but very nice having the original stopper :)


Luke,

You are the man !

Thank you for this... I would never have placed that kind of value on this..

Have a great day !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: pookles on July 26, 2017, 04:29:06 am
Pleasure George! I guess condition and being part of the Bloch collection also add to the value. I really like your bottle - interesting shape and markings. Congrats!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on July 26, 2017, 07:38:51 am
Dear Luke,

    Yes, provenance and condition ARE important. Also, there was competition between wealthy Chinese bidders to buy stuff at ridiculous prices.

    For example, the auction always featured a full set of the Bloch catalogue, which is available 3 doors away for under US$2,000; and yet Chinese bidders at the auction would fight to pay up to 5 times that, to buy the set in the auction!

   Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: pookles on July 26, 2017, 09:27:55 am
Dear Joey,

That explains a lot! It's really confusing sometimes looking over old auctions and suddenly a seemingly ordinary looking bottle goes 5x or even 20x over the estimate... Those crazy Chinese bidders :)

Best,
Luke


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on July 26, 2017, 09:34:43 am
Dear Luke,

   It's not all Chinese bidders; just those trying to show off. I remember a Jewish guy, Sidney Ashkenazi, in SFO, who used to pull the same shtick.
He was trying to scare off the opposition.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on July 26, 2017, 10:03:59 am
Hi Luke,

Having bid 10 times the low estimate for a group of snuff bottles I'm not in a position to pass judgement but I hope you can vouch for the fact it would be hard to mistake me for being Chinese  ;D

In my defence the low estimate would have meant the bottles were less than £10 each and one was a Zhang Baotian IP bottle.

Regards, Adrian.

PS, good to meet you last week.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on July 26, 2017, 11:11:01 am
Good point, Adrian.   ;D
Any of us can 'go crazy', and sometimes, the seemingly crazy bid IS the realistic one.
Just don't assume the crazy bid is realistic, unless it is your own AND based on hard knowledge.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 11, 2017, 01:04:58 pm
Today Friday bottle is this Zodiac bottle carved from some kind of composite material.. Maybe epoxy mixed with some kind of ground up stone.. It has all the Chinese zodiac animals included..

My finger just sort of hit the buy it now  :D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on August 11, 2017, 01:44:41 pm
Now that is a Friday Fun bottle George.

I have what I think is a carved resin bottle as opposed to moulded and I wonder if they are training bottles for lapidaries.

I think I have control of my "buy it now" finger but it is twitching somewhat as I haven't bought much for a while.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 11, 2017, 01:49:26 pm
Now that is a Friday Fun bottle George.

I have what I think is a carved resin bottle as opposed to moulded and I wonder if they are training bottles for lapidaries.


I should have been more precise... This one was mold cast and then touched up with grinding tool..

I have no idea if they would have been training bottles.. I remember Charll mentioning some time ago his believe that resin bottles may well have had their place as utilitarian in the past..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on August 11, 2017, 01:59:52 pm
Hi George,

I did look to see if there were any join marks down the side as on moulded fake cinnabar bottles but couldn't see any. Does the inside of the mouth show any join marks ?

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on August 11, 2017, 07:07:52 pm
George,

I like the overall form and style of this one. Even the foot rim looks convincing. A pity is isn't black nephrite!
You don't say how tall it is.

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 11, 2017, 11:56:20 pm
Does the inside of the mouth show any join marks ?



I don't think so... But could be mistaken about that.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 11, 2017, 11:57:21 pm
George,

I like the overall form and style of this one. Even the foot rim looks convincing. A pity is isn't black nephrite!
You don't say how tall it is.

Tom

I also kept looking at the foot rim.. Well done.. Without the stopper it is 2 1/2"..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on August 12, 2017, 12:29:05 am
Change the stopper, and this bottle would make a perfectly presentable "shelf filler" in a display cabinet.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on August 12, 2017, 04:17:02 am
Dear Tom,

     I was thinking, "A pity it is not Rhinoceros horn!". From 1970 till I stopped collecting all materials in 1991 or 1992, I looked hrd for a carved bottle in rhino horn but never found one I could afford that was 'right' (and didn't find all that many anyway).

    This looks like what I would have wanted. Oh well... :D
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


George,

I like the overall form and style of this one. Even the foot rim looks convincing. A pity is isn't black nephrite!
You don't say how tall it is.

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on August 12, 2017, 07:48:02 pm
That is a fun one George, thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on August 25, 2017, 05:15:30 pm
Happy Friday Everyone,

I've mentioned on the Forum that my brother and I often bid on bottles together at auction, sometimes a double lot, and then the next time we see one another, we will play a hand of cribbage or 2 out of 3 ( depending how bad we like the bottle) to determine who gets first pick and so on.  Well, we successfully bid on a lot at the last Bonhams auction (not as nice a bottle as yours, Samson) but we were both in the mood for an overlay.  Well, he's coming up for a visit for our holiday Labor Day Weekend and we will be playing again!

So, for a Friday Fun Bottle, make that bottles, I thought I'd pose a question to the group:  if you had first pick, which bottle would you choose?

Thanks for playing!

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: samsonlzj on August 25, 2017, 10:31:50 pm
Dear Rube,

Thanks! :)

Beautiful bottles you and your brother got! I too have a special liking for Yangzhou overlay bottles and yours look in a fine condition! In my view they are not "Friday fun bottles"! ;)

Congratulations!

Best,
Samson

P.S. I'd pick the first one if to choose between the two. Simply love it!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 25, 2017, 10:35:35 pm
Thanks for posting a Friday fun bottle Rube !

I pick the second one.. Beautiful colors and shape.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 25, 2017, 10:37:41 pm
I think may have shared this one last year... But picked it for todays Friday bottle..

No idea how they accomplished this.. The seller posted a few just prior to my buying this one, and then they posted a few shortly after.. Have not seen any listed since those..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on August 26, 2017, 12:43:02 am
Dear Rube,

      I agree with Samson - definitely the first one. But I'm Israeli: OF COURSE I'll pick 'Blue & White' over any other combination of colours!  ::) ;D
Shabbat Shalom, from Sunny Jerusalem,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on August 26, 2017, 12:44:20 am
Dear George,

    What is that? Is it an IPSB inside a clear glass bottle?
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on August 26, 2017, 07:01:56 am
Dear Rube,

Thanks! :)

Beautiful bottles you and your brother got! I too have a special liking for Yangzhou overlay bottles and yours look in a fine condition! In my view they are not Friday Fun Bottles!

P.S. I'd pick the first one if to choose between the two. Simply love it!
Samson, I didn't mean to denigrate these two to Friday Fun status, more the game itself!  I'm not surprised that there is division amongst the field, as I, too, seem a bit conflicted.  Thanks for playin' along, I'll be sure to post the results next weekend!

Cheers,
Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 26, 2017, 07:02:07 am
Dear George,

    What is that? Is it an IPSB inside a clear glass bottle?
Joey

Yes, a bottle in a bottle ...


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on August 26, 2017, 11:19:18 am
Hi George, very interesting, something I haven't seen before. A bit like a ship in a bottle but a lot more difficult! Thanks for posting.

Regards Jason.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: NE collector on August 26, 2017, 05:58:05 pm
Hi Rube,

My choice would be the blue and white. Both bottles are lovely. Good luck with your "bottle battle." I hope you get the one you want!

Regards,

Toni-Lee


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on August 26, 2017, 10:30:02 pm
Toni-Lee,
I can't lose!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on August 27, 2017, 08:41:53 am
Rube,
I will pick the blue over white. The mask design looks out of this world though !
Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on August 27, 2017, 09:16:04 am
Dear George ,
You posted on Aug 11 a snuff bootleg with zodiac design. Could you add a top view of the mouth. You guessed the material could be some composite. Are you in possession of the bottle now ? Rube asked me to refer to this post of yours after I posted a bottle which I thought was organic and carved out of some hardwood.
Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on August 27, 2017, 11:47:57 am
Inn Bok,
I'm drawn to the rather alien looking masks too! I've often wondered about that motif, is it associated exclusively with Yangzhou bottles? That seems to be the only type I see them on.
Thanks for playin!
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on August 27, 2017, 12:13:37 pm
Dear Rube,

      As far as I know, yes. This style is exclusive to Yangzhou Seal School bottles. Although I'm used to them seeming more like bats.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on August 27, 2017, 01:31:38 pm
Dear George ,
You posted on Aug 11 a snuff bootleg with zodiac design. Could you add a top view of the mouth. You guessed the material could be some composite. Are you in possession of the bottle now ? Rube asked me to refer to this post of yours after I posted a bottle which I thought was organic and carved out of some hardwood.
Inn Bok


Here it is Inn Bok..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 01, 2017, 04:04:23 am
My latest Friday fun bottle.

Oval agate bottle with a flat foot. 32mm high. Agate stopper with bone spoon. Very well hollowed, close to a floater.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 01, 2017, 04:18:13 am
Are you sure this isn't an egg of the Agatus cucullatus, a stone age relative of the Dodo?   ;D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 01, 2017, 04:38:40 am
Dear Tom,

     You needed to put a yellow smiley face next to your statement, so I'd know it was meant as a joke.

Dear Adrian,

     That looks like an onyx 'egg' hollowed out. I think it is very funny, but not very old.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 01, 2017, 04:45:26 am
Apologies Joey. Post amended...


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 01, 2017, 06:20:34 am
Dear Joey and Tom,

I can date this one very accurately, August 2017. I finished it yesterday and it was an agate egg.  :D

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on September 01, 2017, 11:45:40 am
Adrian,
Nicely Done!

Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 01, 2017, 01:04:01 pm
Great Friday Fun bottle Adrian !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on September 01, 2017, 04:43:37 pm
Dear Adrian,
what do you mean by "I finished it yesterda"? Did you hollowed it?
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 02, 2017, 02:56:31 am
Dear Giovanni,

While you have wonderful antique fairs where you live, the one I went to here a few weeks ago was full of rubbish and I only bought an agate egg for £1 (about 3 euro's  :D).

I hollowed it out with a thin tube drill and made the stopper from one of the small bits of assorted mineral stones I bought in South Africa. I made the spoon from bones I got from my local butcher which I cooked in my oven which I will also make some bone collars with which I will stain.

I find it interesting to get a feel for what it is like to work snuff bottles and it gives me some insight into what sort of finish you can achieve with modern tools. I managed to get the inside relatively smooth just by using the tube drill but I might try and polish it smooth with Carborundum powder to see how long the process takes.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: samsonlzj on September 02, 2017, 05:42:06 am
Dear Adrian,

Not bad considering that's your first attempt! It really does look like a functional snuff bottle at least! :o Many of us here are collecting snuff bottles, but as far as I know no one has ever made one yet! So that's really impressive! It must make you proud! ::)

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 02, 2017, 12:40:42 pm
Impressive indeed Adrian !

Great job !!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on September 02, 2017, 02:32:49 pm
Dear Adrian,
are you a lapidary? If not, really impressive! If not, I am very interested to know which tools did you use.
My interest is because I ahve found a natural pebble witht he exact shape of the "pebble shaped" bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on September 03, 2017, 03:55:35 am
Adrian,

Good job. A self-made modern snuff bottle ! Suggest you add your own seal mark at the base  ;D ;D

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 03, 2017, 11:12:24 am
Dear Giovanni,

No I am not but I have some stoppers to make so it seems it will become something of a hobby as it was satisfying to do.

The tool I use came from China through Ebay and I bought some 3mm tube drill bits from the UK which have worked well. The main problem is finding drill bits that are long enough to work on normal sized bottles so I am restricted to smaller ones for now.

A Dremmel works fairly well but there is a proper drill bit chuck on my new machine which you can see on the end of the flexible shaft. There is another that is slightly larger that fits directly onto the shafts that exit either side of the motor housing.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 03, 2017, 11:15:42 am
Hi Inn Bok,

As I live in the New Forest in the UK it may have to be a tree symbol or Chinese characters to say "Forest Studio". Maybe "Grumpy Man Studio" would be better.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on September 03, 2017, 01:07:33 pm
Thank you very much dear Adrian, good to know that.
I am admired by your work, congratulations.
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 03, 2017, 02:39:37 pm
Dear Adrian,

     Quite good for your first attempt.

     But I've made at least 12 snuff bottles.
My good friend John Ang, while he lived in Singapore, in 1974, when I was 17 and he was 16, sent me a Hornbill head.

     I cut off the top beak, and made it into  a snuff bottle, by cutting off the top 20mm and making it the stopper; then I cut a piece of balsa wood to fit inside the base and covered it with pieces of the bottom beak. I carved 5 bats in low relief where the material was thickest. It was dead easy to hollow out - there was a dried spongy membrane which just pulled out. The finished bottle was 75mm high.

    From the casque, I made a Dragon tortoise snuff bottle, drilling it out in a fan shape, and then connecting to make a smooth hollowing. I cut a small piece of casque and carved it as the head/stopper. I also carved the carapace, legs, feet and tail. It is a very easy to carve, and very pleasing to carve,  material. The finished bottle was roughly 60 mm long (without the stopper), 40 mm wide and 20 mm thick.

    If I'd known then what I know now, I'd not have bought the head, etc. But for a 17 yr. old boy, it was US$48 well spent (purchase and postage). And I did use them to give out snuff, so technically, they WERE working snuff bottles.

    And I made at least 10 bottles from Etrog. The Etrog, used on the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths along with a closed palm frond, 3 willow branches and 2 branches of Myrtle, the last three wrapped together (called together, The Four Species), is the Citrus Medica.

    It is known in Chinese Culture as the Buddha's Hand Fruit. The fruit's skin dries as hard as a piece of hardwood, while the interior gets desiccated (dried out but crumbly). I would cut the end that was connected to the branch flat, and the other end, with the distinctive little knob, I would cut off and use as the stopper, with a black vinyl collar courtesy of Y. F. Yang.

    I gave most of the Etrog SBs away, and sold one plus the two Hornbill SBs among the 2 lots of 16 bottles sold in Sotheby's Torquay in May, 1981.  I had removed 32 rejects from my collection in Nov.1980, and flown them to London.
I got UK£ 1,000 each lot net, which I spent in July, 1981 at Sotheby's London's Edward Chow Sale of snuff bottles.

Best,
Joey

   


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: samsonlzj on September 03, 2017, 07:35:25 pm
Dear Joey,

Wow, 17 self-made snuff bottles? :o I don't know what to say, but you're a collector who doesn't just collect snuff bottles but has even integrated it well into your life! It'd take an incredible amount of devotion for any of us to attain that! I wish I have the chance to see some of your works... ::)

Best,
Samson


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 04, 2017, 01:14:32 am
Dear Joey,
    I am both amazed and impressed at this ace-in-the-hole revelation! I thought you said you were not good with delicate handiwork.  ???

Adrian,
    Very interesting. I know next to nothing about the equipment needed to hollow out an object such as a bottle, or that agate egg.
    Can you explain what a 'tube' drill bit is - is it a cylindrical drill bit with a hollow centre, as used for core drilling?
    If it is straight-sided how do you reach the inside of the shoulder (the part immmediately below the mouth opening)?
    And what is a Dremmel, if is is not what is shown in your photo?

Tom   


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 04, 2017, 03:35:34 am
Dear Joey,

Wouldn't it be amusing if one of the bottles you made was posted on the forum having been bought by a member.

I had better get to work if I want to catch you up. I need my little dog to find more deer bones out in the forest as material for me as you recognised the agate egg far to quickly.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 04, 2017, 03:48:55 am
Hi Tom,

Yes, core drill or tube drill so hollow inside although as I used a 3mm drill bit there is only a small hollow inside. As there is no neck on the bottle it is easy to work into the shoulders but I also have bits with small ball ends that can work into the shoulders better.

A Dremel is a genetic name for a multi tool, a hand held device where the enclosed motor is what you hold. There are a wide range of bits that go in them for cutting, polishing etc.

It's quite obvious on looking into modern agate bottles I have that they were hollowed with something like the ball drill bits. There are obvious ridges between where the ball has been worked into the material which would take some time to smooth out to achieve anything approaching the smoothness achieved by the hand polishing and hollowing of genuine bottles.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 04, 2017, 04:23:47 am
Thanks Adrian,

So the ball-headed drill bits I have seen illustrated in some snuff bottle books is still the best way of hollowing out a traditionally shaped bottle? I thought there might be some innovative new way to do it.

From your description of Dremmel that is obvioulsy NOT what is in your photo. How would you describe what you have?

Tom

PS: I believe "One Grumpy Man Studio" has a better ring to it in Chinese.  ;)


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 04, 2017, 04:39:58 pm
Dear Adrian,

      In Ireland, I have lots of antlers from my Sika Deer herd. Would you like some?
      Re. the bottles surfacing; they could. In fact, a dealer from Forest Hills NY offered the Hornbill Beak bottle for US$2,000, dated as early 20th C., at a convention, in 1982 (NYC) or 1984 (LA). He'd not risked bringing it into Canada for the 1983 Toronto convention.

     I had cold-forged the sterling silver spoon, and scratched JBS on the bowl. A friend who'd visited me in Jerusalem, recognised it, and announced that it was my handiwork; the dealer denied it. I suggested they look at the bowl of the spoon, and my initials were identified.
   
     Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

Wouldn't it be amusing if one of the bottles you made was posted on the forum having been bought by a member.

I had better get to work if I want to catch you up. I need my little dog to find more deer bones out in the forest as material for me as you recognised the agate egg far to quickly.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 04, 2017, 04:48:09 pm
Dear Tom,

    I made the bottles when I was 16 - 18. I was still cold forging sterling silver and 18K gold spoons by hand using 2-3mm thick soft wire, as recently as 15 years ago.

    Today I do more embroidery and sewing, of Torah covers and Torah wrappers, than carving.

     I have a lot of Sika Deer antlers, and have been toying with trying to reproduce those wonderful Viking chess pieces found many years ago in Scotland, but have not yet done anything.

     Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 04, 2017, 11:19:49 pm
Hi Tom,

Yes, core drill or tube drill so hollow inside although as I used a 3mm drill bit there is only a small hollow inside. As there is no neck on the bottle it is easy to work into the shoulders but I also have bits with small ball ends that can work into the shoulders better.


Everything you describe about core bits and Dremel type bits and how they are used make perfect sense to me Adrian.

I remember your post showing both the bit with the ball, and one other tool with sort of a hook shape for the shoulders..

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3484.msg49259.html#msg49259

Your electric motor set up also makes perfect sense..

Do you find it necessary to add water to the piece while your working it ?  Also, for the exterior, what type of abrasives and attachments do you like to use.. Belts, discs, etc.. ?

This is a great topic, and would really enjoy getting together with you and experience making one..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 05, 2017, 07:15:51 am
Here is my Friday bottle which again was the result of simply needing a bottle fix  :D

20th, famille rose in the form of an old medicine bottle..

If someone can help with the poem and additional script, that would be great  :)



I am getting ready to gift this to my Grandaughter...

If someone can help with translating the poem, that would be wonderful...
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3361.msg47539.html#msg47539


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 05, 2017, 10:28:30 am
Dear Joey (Master of the Beaks),

Somewhere in my house I have a good sized piece of deer antler but seeing as I've had it for about 10 years and never used it I feel it might be best to turn down your very generous offer and let you hold onto your supplies for when you start on the chess set.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 05, 2017, 09:00:55 pm

(Master of the Beaks),


Great moniker Adrian,

In view of the antlers I wonder if it should be modified to 'Master of the Beaks and Racks'..... 

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 06, 2017, 02:28:57 am
Hi Tom,

I'm not sure Joey has any interests in "Racks"  :o

I don't know how I would describe what I have. I bought it as a polisher but with all the attachments it is capable of far more than just polishing. A static motor with 2 output shafts ?

Regards, Adrian (One grumpy old man studio).


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 06, 2017, 02:36:29 am
Hi Tom,

I'm not sure Joey has any interests in "Racks"  :o


 :D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 06, 2017, 02:38:39 am
Hi George,

I do use water which makes the drill bits last longer and makes the cuts smoother. Using a grinding wheel dry leaves any edges very rough.

I have just experimented with the wide collection of various bits that I have in terms of working on the outside of bottles but haven't found anything ideal yet. I was hoping you would be the one to suggest the best methods for polishing stones to get a good finish on them.

I might have to try a metal wheel and carborundum powder to try and emulate how they were originally worked.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 06, 2017, 05:47:21 am
Your double spindled motor is great.. With the right attachments, you can do like this video's shows. The blade used to cut out the desired size from the piece of rough stone is a standard 6" or 8" diamond blade.

This video shows some kind of very small abrasive wheel on the end of the spindle. I do not know what that might be, but would have to be nickel or diamond.. They also use what looks like some kind of nickel or diamond tipped bit attached to your spindle used to hollow out the interior as well for shaping the bottle. If we could figure out what kind of spindle attached ( diamond or nickel (https://www.amazon.com/SE-82331TF-30-Piece-Titanium-Coated-Diamond/dp/B000P49BX8/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_bs_tr_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=T20MM5DCW8VVMWZ1XS4C) ) bit that is, that would be nice.. That link gives us an idea.. And I would be running quite a little stream of water between the bits and stone. Just need to figure out how to attach to your spindles. That entire set in the previous link only consists of grits 120-150. That is just a starting point, so need to find something like these that offer the remaining grits.. I have looked a little but no luck yet..

Must have a good selection of them, interchanging from grit to grit to finish the outside of a bottle if a guy ever expects to be able and have a decent polish..  There is no way to get around the necessity of going through quite a series of grits/abrasives starting with course and working up to finer grits before the surface will be ready for polish.  Starting with 80 grit, then 120, 180, 260, 400, and finish with a 600 and even 800 grit.. For jades it would have to work all the way up to about a 1200 or even 2400 diamond abrasive before can polish.

There are some good 3M and scotch-brite products (http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Abrasives/Industrial-Abrasives-Finishing/Abrasive-Wheels/?N=5002385+8710644+8710812+8710953+8711017+3294857497&rt=r3) that should also be able to use for grinding steps once the bottle is shaped with the more course diamond/nickel grinding tools.. Plus you would be able to get into the shoulder/neck area. I have used their product for silversmithing, but not for working with stone. I think they would be a-ok.. But again, it is necessary to start course and work up through the finer..

https://youtu.be/YIZCQJhNXg4


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 06, 2017, 06:16:12 am
George,

Thanks for the great video clip! (This should really be moved into the hollowing thread.)

Interesting that the mask handles are finished before the lapidary even starts on the hollowing.
But like the Mongolian videos, the later stages of interior hollowing are skipped completely - really frustrating!

Tom 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 07, 2017, 01:57:07 am
Hi George,

It's very frustrating but I can't see any of the video clips that have been posted recently, I just get a black square.

From what you are describing I think it may be the clip that shows someone working an amber bottle and I have bits shaped like the one he used to hollow the interior although my shafts are a shorter length and I have yet to find any like that one that are long enough to hollow down to the base. I think they used a ball type bit on the video of the hollowing of IP bottles.

I have seen bags of various graded polishing powders so might have to order some and experiment. I assume the pitting we can see on the surface of genuine old bottles is due to there not having been ways to accurately grade the abrasives they used and the occasional larger bit of grit ending up being forced into the surface of the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 07, 2017, 04:58:49 am
Hi George,

It's very frustrating but I can't see any of the video clips that have been posted recently, I just get a black square.

Regards, Adrian.

I am experiencing the same problem Adrian.. Something I have not been able to figure out and fix..

To view the video, right click on the black box and select "properties".. Copy and paste the url into your browser..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 07, 2017, 05:00:28 am
I assume the pitting we can see on the surface of genuine old bottles is due to there not having been ways to accurately grade the abrasives they used and the occasional larger bit of grit ending up being forced into the surface of the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.

Pitting would have to be simply low grade material..


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 07, 2017, 05:46:31 am
Adrian and George,

I have never come across any genuine older bottles with the type of pitting you describe. Whereas they may not have had the selection of abrasives available today, they certainly had time to cover up any pitting!

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 07, 2017, 06:50:45 am
Dear Adrian,

      As long as "Master of The Beaks" is not a veiled reference to my Judaism (I know it isn't - just using Lefty Liberal virtue  signalling!  ::) :o ;D ), it should be "Master of The Beak"! I only did the one.

     Re."Racks". I DO love "racks" :  racks of lamb!  ;D
Best to all,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 07, 2017, 08:27:38 am
Dear Joey,

If it was a veiled reference to your Judaism then it would have been "Owner of the Beak".  ;D

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 07, 2017, 08:50:45 am
Hi Tom,

Hope this picture demonstrates what I am referring to although not all the marks come from polishing, some are age and wear related.

The pitting looks to me like errand larger grains of polishing medium have dragged across the surface before becoming embedded  into it. It would be consistent with them using large iron polishing wheels with silica powder poured between the wheel and the object being polished.

You need a good loupe to see it and the right angle to the light. It may well be that the highest quality bottles were polished continually to really clean them up but it is something I see in varying degrees, especially noticeable on glass bottles.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 07, 2017, 05:23:47 pm
There are a couple things going on there.. Pitting for sure, and the lines running across are not from course grinding tool, I think they are there because the person who made it I used an abrasive belt, leaving the harder ( darker ) material higher than the softer ( lighter colored ) material..

Can I see a pic of the bottle so can ID the mineral ?


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 07, 2017, 09:00:16 pm
Hi George,

It's very frustrating but I can't see any of the video clips that have been posted recently, I just get a black square.


I am curious Adrian... What browser do you use ?


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on September 07, 2017, 09:05:46 pm
Happy Friday Everyone,

I've mentioned on the Forum that my brother and I often bid on bottles together at auction, sometimes a double lot, and then the next time we see one another, we will play a hand of cribbage or 2 out of 3 ( depending how bad we like the bottle) to determine who gets first pick and so on.  Well, we successfully bid on a lot at the last Bonhams auction (not as nice a bottle as yours, Samson) but we were both in the mood for an overlay.  Well, he's coming up for a visit for our holiday Labor Day Weekend and we will be playing again!

So, for a Friday Fun Bottle, make that bottles, I thought I'd pose a question to the group:  if you had first pick, which bottle would you choose?

Hi Everyone, in case anyone was wondering, I ended up with the aqua bottle with brown overlay.  Thanks again for playing along!
Cheers,
Rube.
Thanks for playing!

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 08, 2017, 12:50:30 am
Good 'score' Rube, but I think it was a win-win game all along....   ;)

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 08, 2017, 12:56:23 am

It may well be that the highest quality bottles were polished continually to really clean them up but it is something I see in varying degrees, especially noticeable on glass bottles.


Hi Adrian,

Yes, I see what you are talking about, and it may be more noticeable on glass. Is you photo of a glass bottle, or quartz crystal?

I don't recall seeing this kind of pitting on any older bottles made of natural mineral. But then I haven't examined all of them with a high magnification loupe.

Best,
Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 08, 2017, 02:56:18 am
The first picture is of my faceted octagonal glass bottle which I think was posted in the "2 plain bottles, are they too plain" thread in the glass bottle thread.

In the previous picture the darker bits are indents in the surface so aren't raised areas.

The first picture in this post is of a modern agate bottle, not the clearest picture as it is hard to record, but the polishing is much finer and very consistent with none of the pitting.

The second picture is of a glass imitating Realgar bottle and it again shows lines being made on the surface before ending where the courser grain then catches and embeds itself in the surface.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 08, 2017, 11:15:17 am
Ah... Now can see better... The glass bottle simply did not get hit with the last couple finer grit abrasive..

The glass imitating realgar is pitting..., but combined with same thing.. Failed to hit it with the proper final few finer grit abrasives.. 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 09, 2017, 03:57:07 am
Hi George,

I'm sticking with my feeling that it's a case of errant larger grains getting into whatever polishing powder is used because the surfaces are very well polished on the whole so very fine grades of polishing medium have been used.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 15, 2017, 05:06:53 am
I think I may have hit the sweet spot with this Friday Fun Bottle.

I know what it looks like but it's not, it's a snail.

I have no idea of the age of this and it can be hard to tell with some Yixing wares. I first thought it was modern due to the impressed mark being on the body of the bottle and not hidden away on the base but I have since seen old examples where the mark or marks are made on the body. It's hard to see the mark clearly to try and identify it which doesn't help.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 16, 2017, 04:55:41 pm
Yup, Adrian.
You know what I thought it was, at first... ::) :o ;D
I was going to describe it as the 'South Park' bottle.  ;)
 Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on September 22, 2017, 08:10:36 am
Happy Friday Everyone!

Though I don't have any new pics yet of the fish overlay bottle, I'll share a one of a kind, fun one, in the meantime.
My grandfather commissioned a family friend/jeweler to embellish in monogram, a bottle with loose freshwater pearls he had collected.

Cheers,

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 22, 2017, 09:43:45 am
Hi Rube,

A worthy Friday Fun bottle.

Next weeks entrant is on it's way to me unless someone else wants to step forward with something hidden away in their collection.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on September 22, 2017, 10:44:58 am
Thanks Adrian,

The more the merrier!

Cheers,

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on September 23, 2017, 12:57:24 am
Rube,

It looks like your grandfather also enjoyed having fun with snuff bottles. Possibly not only on Fridays either....!   :)

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 23, 2017, 01:10:39 am
Dear Rube,
 
     Very impressive! Was the monogram E.O.M. or E.D.M.?
I once saw a bottle with a 'shou' symbol done in such pearls inset into lacquer.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on September 23, 2017, 09:08:14 am
Very special and unique.  Joey's comment reminded me of another unusual bottle that was featured in an article on the Helen Pritchard Collection by Dr Vincent Fausone Jr. in the Autumn 2017 ICSBS Journal.  It  is a gilt metal bottle overlaid with coral chips mosaics and embellished with a shou charter of split seed pearls.  Thanks for sharing your very special bottle.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 23, 2017, 09:14:44 am
Dear Jo,
 
     Whoops ! That was the bottle.  I mixed up the red coral with  cinnabar lacquer.
Thanks,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on September 23, 2017, 10:42:42 am
Thanks Jo! I've seen that bottle, it's nice! Joey, her initials were E.O.M. Tom, as best I can tell, he gave her 2-3/year later in life. I'll start a thread later just of his bottles commissioned from his minerals. If nothing else, they'll serve as a good example of the craftsmanship of Hong Kong lapidaries from the 70's and 80's.

Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on September 23, 2017, 11:42:06 am
That would be awesome Rube.   I look forward to seeing that very much.   Jo


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Steven on September 23, 2017, 12:54:26 pm
Thanks Jo! I've seen that bottle, it's nice! Joey, her initials were E.O.M. Tom, as best I can tell, he gave her 2-3/year later in life. I'll start a thread later just of his bottles commissioned from his minerals. If nothing else, they'll serve as a good example of the craftsmanship of Hong Kong lapidaries from the 70's and 80's.

Cheers,
Rube

Dear Rube,

Thanks you for sharing such wonderful and fun bottle, with the background story of the bottle, I will say that is a most valuable bottle for your family. Maybe you can pass the bottle and story to your kids someday.

Again, Thanks for sharing!

Best,

Steven


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on September 23, 2017, 01:12:45 pm

Adrian and Rube,

Great looking bottles both.  Thanks for sharing these unique (and in the case of Rube, very personal) bottles.  As expressed by Joey and Jo, such bottles are around, but are rarely seen.  I greatly appreciate seeing two more examples of what I would consider figuratively as ‘rare treasures’ in the snuff bottle world.

Charll


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on September 24, 2017, 08:51:42 am
Adrian and Rube,

Thanks for the pictures of your fun bottles !

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 29, 2017, 03:35:50 am
Another Friday, another fun bottle from my collection of oddities. I was the only bidder on this one which may say something about me  :(

Height is 51mm without the squirted water stopper. I assume the calligraphy on the base is Japanese as this had to be done by a Netsuke carver. Early 20th Century onwards.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 29, 2017, 07:31:34 am
Dear Adrian,

     I had one just like this in 1972, which I bought from a well-known Jewelry and antiques shop in Tel Aviv, called Padani, at 185 HaYarkon St. & Arlozorov St. (near the Tel Aviv Hilton, where I was staying with my parents - I was 15).
Mr. Padani said he'd bought it in Kyoto, Japan in 1968. He thought it was at least 100 years old. I think it was ca. 1880-1940, but could have been as late as 1968 (he was a friend of my late mom's so I doubt he'd have lied to me).

    Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on September 29, 2017, 11:30:56 am
Very interesting bottle Adrian..  I bet there are some meanings between the baby ducks, frog, turtle, and fish...


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on September 29, 2017, 12:07:53 pm
I'm a bit concerned the ducks are kissing and the frog seems to have "ideas" about the turtle. I'm not sure I want to know what the rebus is for that  ;D

Thanks for the information Joey, the colour of the ivory could mean it has a bit of age.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on September 29, 2017, 01:17:13 pm
Very interesting bottle Adrian..  I bet there are some meanings between the baby ducks, frog, turtle, and fish...

I think you my be right George, but it could just be they all like water! ;D

Regards Jas.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on September 29, 2017, 01:25:21 pm
Dear Adrian,

     I had one just like this in 1972, which I bought from a well-known Jewelry and antiques shop in Tel Aviv, called Padani, at 185 HaYarkon St. & Arlozorov St. (near the Tel Aviv Hilton, where I was staying with my parents - I was 15).
Mr. Padani said he'd bought it in Kyoto, Japan in 1968. He thought it was at least 100 years old. I think it was ca. 1880-1940, but could have been as late as 1968 (he was a friend of my late mom's so I doubt he'd have lied to me).

    Best,
Joey

Now you have given your age away Joey, what's even worse is, I have seven years on you. :o

Regards Jas.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 30, 2017, 01:30:55 pm
Dear Jas,

     I have always been open about my age - at the bottom it says, "collecting since 1970". Did you assume I was a foetus when I started?  ::) :o ;D
But I don't understand - are you 7 years older or 7 years younger?
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on September 30, 2017, 01:37:06 pm
Dear Jas,

     I have always been open about my age - at the bottom it says, "collecting since 1970". Did you assume I was a foetus when I started?  ::) :o ;D
But I don't understand - are you 7 years older or 7 years younger?
Best,
Joey

Older!  ::)

Regards Jas.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on September 30, 2017, 01:45:44 pm
Dear Jason,

     60 is the new 35. So 67 is the new 42.  ;)
I loved the AbFab episode when Edina was being feted for her 40th birthday, and Marshall's American 'snowflake' wife was in terror when asked about her 50th...
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on September 30, 2017, 02:09:26 pm
Dear Adrian,
I agree, Japanese.
But I don't agree about the color being sign of age, because it has been clearly stained. You can see that the color ir darker in the recessed areas, besides being very uniform.
Nevertheless it doesn't mean that it is modern, because it was common to stain ivory in the past too.
You make me laugh about the "ideas" of the frog, haha.
Kind regards
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Mat on September 30, 2017, 02:24:48 pm
Such a hidden (or not so hidden) sexual meaning can be seen quite often on Japanese netsuke, so I think it is not unusual that it appears on a Japanese made snuff bottle. I think it is not only ducks and frog, but the carp too!
Matthias


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 06, 2017, 06:58:02 pm
Happy Friday All,

I'm sharing a bottle which I think is lots of fun, the grasshopper's eyes, especially!  I love the lines, and little details, but don't know anything about it.  Guessing it's a contemporary Japanese ivory, ( the stopper is coral) and measures 2 5/16" w/o stopper.  Any help with dating is greatly appreciated, as always!

Cheers,

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: George on October 06, 2017, 09:49:33 pm
Wonderful bottle Rube !

I think your correct guessing contemporary Japanese ivory..

Thanks for keeping this Friday Fun Bottle topic alive !


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on October 07, 2017, 01:09:15 am
Thanks for sharing Rube,

I'm rather partial to corn on the cob bottles. What's on the opposite side to the grasshopper, a slug or caterpillar?   

Regards Jas.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on October 07, 2017, 08:02:57 am
Dear Jason,

     It looks 'sectioned', so I'm assuming a caterpillar.

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on October 07, 2017, 08:03:58 am
Dear Rube,

    A cute snuff bottle, well worthy of the thread...  ;)
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on October 07, 2017, 11:19:09 am
Dear Jason,

     It looks 'sectioned', so I'm assuming a caterpillar.

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

Dear Joey,

That's what thought, but it is very short for a caterpillar. Perhaps a bit of artistic licence on the part of the carver!

Regards Jason.



Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 07, 2017, 02:59:32 pm
Jason and Joey,
I too think it's a bitty caterpillar.
George,
This is a great thread!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on October 07, 2017, 03:03:41 pm
Very nice bottle!  The insects appear to be trying for a taste of the corn. I love the humor shown here!  Anyone come up with an idea on the age?  My hunch is early 20th century.   


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on October 07, 2017, 03:12:05 pm
Dear Jo,

     I thought 50 or 60 years later.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 08, 2017, 07:34:35 am
Jo,
 Yep, this bottle always cracks me up, but I do like the lines and angles, especially how the grasshopper's legs and the husk are shaped.

Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 27, 2017, 08:04:37 am
Happy Friday Everyone,

And Happy Early Halloween!

Cheers,

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on October 27, 2017, 08:57:32 am
Hi Rube,

Nice one and very seasonal, what is it made from ?

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 27, 2017, 09:14:45 am
Adrian,
It’s a natural gourd bottle, measuring 1 1/4” w/o stopper. For Halloween, I’ll call it a pumpkin!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: pookles on October 27, 2017, 09:29:52 am
Hi Rube,

Very interesting bottle - love the material used here  ;D

Best,
Luke


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on October 28, 2017, 01:57:18 am
Hi Rube,

I love your timing.

Regards Jason.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on October 28, 2017, 07:05:42 am
Dear Rube,
very nice, I like organic bottles.
If you think in selling it, I will be happy to complete the tris ;D
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 28, 2017, 09:15:36 am
Thanks for your comments everyone!
Giovanni, those are fantastic! If I ever do, I’ll keep you in mind. But for now I’ll try to grow my vegetables, I need some corn and cabbage to go with my gourd and white jade aubergine.
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on October 28, 2017, 12:17:54 pm
Since you seem to be in the festive season, here is one of my pumpkins.

Natural Gourd Snuff Bottle:
Small round gourd, natural form with knobbles and protrusions occurring over the surface of body.  Satin lacquer finish with high points of knobbles naturally polished from extensive handling over time.
Inset ivory collar.  Ivory spoon and collar with coral branch as stopper handle.

This is a small bottle just 3.5 cm (1.4 inches) in height from the base to the top of the inset collar and 4 cm (1.6 inches) wide.

Period: 19th Century.

Provenance:
Ex: Marie Lenhart, ICSBS Journal for Lenhart, Maria, 37–3:48; 38–1:44; 38–3:41
Marsha Vargas Handley (MVH)-Xanadu Gallery

Reference:
Similar to- Lot 111, ‘Serendipity, Chinese Snuff Bottles XVI’, 2011, Robert Hall.

Other Information: The gourd has been used by many cultures as a container by virtue of the hard and impermeable skin of the fruit once dried.  In China the fruit was especially prized when it grew in a double-gourd form, which symbolizes fertility (Kleiner, Chinese Snuff Bottles, 1994).  Gourds were often employed as receptacles for medicines, and became a traditional symbol of medicine and healing.  In its natural form, gourd snuff bottles would have been appealing too and been used by doctors, druggist, and the literati class.

Bottles with age and use will have surface areas with a high polished patina which forms with much handling, and the bottle here is such an example.

Hey, I really appreciate seeing the other examples as well.   Charll


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on October 28, 2017, 12:59:52 pm
Charll,
That’s a dandy! I appreciate all of your detailed information as well!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on October 28, 2017, 01:43:03 pm
Great Bottle Charll! I also appreciate the detailed information. 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: AntPeople on November 20, 2017, 06:04:39 am
Very nice bottle 👍🏼........ Thanks for sharing

Pin


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on November 20, 2017, 07:46:20 am
Hi Charll,

Lovely bottle, especially the inset ivory and stopper which set it off nicely.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on November 30, 2017, 11:59:05 pm
I don't have a Friday Fun Bottle to share.......so here is a Friday Fun Box. A Dux Box to be precise!

Description:
Hardwood box and cover, carved in the form of a pair of stylized ducks holding aquatic plants in their bills, the carving continuing to the base where the ducks’ webbed feet are depicted. 
   
Length 12.5cm

Enjoy!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 01, 2017, 05:17:29 am
Dear all,

This is my lot for Friday.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 01, 2017, 09:09:52 am
Dear Tom,
 
     I really like all three wooden boxes so far shown. The work is very well done.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 01, 2017, 09:11:25 am
Dear Inn Bok,

     What material is it? It looks like it could possibly be amber, but alternatively a walnut.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 01, 2017, 11:43:43 am
Hi Tom,

And there I was thinking you were finally going to post a worthy Friday Fun Bottle.

Another lovely box will do.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 01, 2017, 11:45:18 am
Hi Inn Bok,

I thought it might be deer antler but I'm not sure from the base.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 01, 2017, 04:03:30 pm
Dear Adrian,
 
      You could well be right.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 08, 2017, 03:33:33 am
Not so much a Friday Fun Bottle, more of a sad bottle.

It was in a lot of 5 bottles of which 2 were of interest but I could see this was once a very nice bottle which was pictured in the auction with a cinnabar bead in the broken mouth with a load of gunk holding it in place.

Red overlays with Chi dragons were a common Imperial theme especially when the tail wrapped around to form the footrim. The quality of the carving, control of the base glass and detailed mask and ring handles make this a sad loss of a high quality bottle.

The bead has been cleaned of the gunk, some sort of wax probably, and is carved cinnabar with dragons heads and will be used as an ojimie bead for one of my Inro. I'm wondering if there is any way to reform a neck in a clear epoxy resin to stabilise the bottle but I'm worried by the heat generated as the epoxy sets.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on December 08, 2017, 03:41:16 am

I'm wondering if there is any way to reform a neck in a clear epoxy resin to stabilise the bottle but I'm worried by the heat generated as the epoxy sets.


Adrian,

If anyone knows the answer to your question it's Vaughan (aka Mandarin). He hasn't been active on the forum for a while, but send him a PM.

It must have been a fine bottle once.

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 08, 2017, 07:11:52 am
Dear Adrian,

     I agree with you that it is sad to see such a wonderful example so badly damaged, and
with Tom that if anyone can help you with it, Vaughan should be able to.
  The Friday 'anti-fun' bottle. :'(
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: ileney on December 09, 2017, 08:24:33 pm
I know that museums use HXTAL when repairing valuable glass and ceramics and lapidarists use it on stone when they make opal or other types of doublets or triplets and also they use it for filling small vugs, but I’m not sure exactly how far you can go with it or if it generates heat. It is non-yellowing or at least to date I have not heard of it ever yellowing. It should be much superior to standard epoxy in terms of clarity and longevity. However, I’m not sure you can pour it into a mold or anything like that if you do not have any of the original glass neck pieces. If you had a new neck piece you could make to fit, perhaps you could use the HXTAL to attach it. It can also be colored.  More information here: http://www.hxtal.com


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 10, 2017, 02:56:55 am
Thank you Tom, Joey and Ileney,

It wouldn't be an easy thing to repair as I can't take a mould of the neck as it doesn't exist but I like a challenge and will have a think of the best way to approach it.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 10, 2017, 09:14:23 am

Adrian,

This bottle may not be a very difficult repair if your do not mind metal.  I have a few bottles with repaired tops in silver.  If the bottle itself was of sufficient quality to justify the repair, I would consider taking it to a craftsman jeweler with other example bottles that are intact.  A new top can be created in wax with a shoulder sleeve that would slip over the damage area.  Once the wax mold of a new top was made it could be cast in any number of metals.

Charll   


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on December 10, 2017, 10:10:47 am
Charll,
Will you post an example of one of these repairs?
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 10, 2017, 05:52:18 pm

Rube,

It will be around Christmas time before I see my collection again.  Currently in the state of Vermont in the northeast US visiting my oldest son.  I'll try to remember when we get back home.  May have to give me a reminder around Christmas.

Charll


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on December 10, 2017, 06:23:56 pm
Charll,
Vermont is lovely!
Any snow out there yet?

Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: rpfstoneman on December 10, 2017, 11:06:46 pm

Rube,

Just started snowing yesterday and through much of today.  Accumulation is only about 4" to date.  Snow is expected through Wednesday.  It is very much setting off the Christmas season though.

Charll


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 11, 2017, 03:17:49 am
Hi Charll,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm getting some glass polish sent so will see what it looks like when it's got a shine to it before deciding what to do.

We've had snow in the UK which has closed schools etc as we aren't really set up to deal with it. 4 inches and the country would be at a standstill.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 14, 2017, 08:50:11 am
Dear Joey and Adrian,

Sorry for a very much delayed response. Was a bit tied down with helping to look after our grandson ( it is year end school holiday season in S'pore ) !

The Friday fun bottle I posted was made from deer antler ( dyed somewhat ).

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 14, 2017, 09:23:27 am
Dear all,

As I will be a bit preoccupied tomorrow, I shall post this fun bottle earlier.

It depicts a crab crawling out of a shell. 60mm long and I believe of moss agate material.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 14, 2017, 11:27:49 am
Dear Inn Bok,

  The photo is not clear enough, but I wondered if those were not feet, and it was turtle.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Jungle Jas on December 14, 2017, 12:39:18 pm
Dear Inn Bok

Interesting bottle, certainly agate but what is it ? One image  makes it look like Crayfish with small claws, whilst another makes it look like a Hermit crab with a small shell! :-\ thanks for sharing.  ;)


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on December 15, 2017, 06:09:08 am
Inn Bok,

An interesting bottle! Thanks for sharing.
I like the dramatic lighting...!

Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 18, 2017, 06:36:23 am
Joey,

It is indeed a crab with half of its body outside a shell.

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Steven on December 18, 2017, 09:40:38 pm
Thanks Innbok for sharing!

That is indeed a fun bottle with a interesting motif.:)

Steven


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 19, 2017, 01:04:11 pm
Dear Inn Bok,

     Thank you, but I believe Jason suggested that. I thought possibly a turtle...

Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 22, 2017, 02:40:41 am
A seasonal snuff bottle in that, with a little imagination, it resembles a Christmas tree.

I don't know if this fully qualifies as a sandwiched glass bottle. The base layer has been  splashed with gold and cinnabar red and the final layer looks to have been rolled over as it has some elongated bubbles showing which would suggest it wasn't dipped in the final layer.

Height is 64mm and the stopper is stained ivory with a small piece of coral.

I imagine the flat on the base was a latter addition as it would have been very easy to flatten the base when the original bottle was shaped.

It is somewhat crude but lays down nicely on it's flattened sides which may have made extracting snuff easier.

Regards, Adrian.

 


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 22, 2017, 04:02:59 am
Dear Adrian,

     I'm confused. Look at the bottle's mouth.
OF COURSE it is a sandwiched glass snuff bottle.
Why were you querying it?
I actually really like it, though it is not very refined, as Hyacinth Bucket might say.  ;D
And I am unanimous in that, as Mrs. Slocum would forthrightly state.  ; ;D
OK, I'm about through my BBC Comedy quotes.
BAZINGA! [a Big Bang Theory quote].
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: AntPeople on December 22, 2017, 09:12:45 am
Very Nice bottle.... it fits into the Chinese philosophy of “the finest art looks clumsy”... 大巧若拙

Pin


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on December 22, 2017, 10:22:02 am
Adrian,
I’m diggin the tree bottle, especially all the tinsel!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Steven on December 22, 2017, 12:25:42 pm
Dear Adrian,

Thanks for sharing and keep the Firday Fun bottle thread running!:)

I really like your bottle, specially the color combinations of the bottle.

Here I am sharing an bottle from Joey's collection without his permission.:) I remember that we have shared the bottle somewhere on the Forum, But its the time of the year to showcase it again. ;)

Enjoy! and Happy holidays!

Steven


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 22, 2017, 02:54:43 pm
Dear Steven,

     Are you psychic?!
I was just about to write you a personal message to ask you to please post my 'Christmas Bottle'!  :o ;D   
AMAZING!

   In Oct. 1989, at the ICSBS Chicago convention that year, I bought this bottle from Clare Chu of Asian Art Studio LA; then she was still Clare Lawrence in London.

   It is Qianlong Imperial Court Tribute, made at the Guangzhou Imperial Workshops, ca. 1736-1795. It is made of gilt copper, inset with facetted green, red and clear paste [glass] gems, representing emeralds, rubies and diamonds.

    There is an almost identical example in the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, but theirs does not have the clear gems in the middle of the flower heads [theirs simply has a central red paste gem in each one].

    The stopper is pink Coral with a baroque Pearl finial and a green Jadeite collar.
 
    Merry Christmas!

  and Shabbat Shalom to all,

Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on December 22, 2017, 03:15:43 pm
Joey,
Whoa! That’s fancy!
Cheers,
Rube


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Steven on December 22, 2017, 07:16:28 pm
Dear Steven,

     Are you psychic?!
[/quote ]
Yes ,I can read your mind. :D


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 22, 2017, 07:45:45 pm
Dear Rube,

     Thank you. When I was first looking at it, the 'bling' factor was a bit off-putting.  But it quickly grew on me, and now I love it.

Dear Steven,

    Seeing my 'Christmas Bling' snuff bottle posted when I'd gone to my computer to send you a private message requesting of you to post it, was a real "Twilight Zone" moment!  ::) ;D

Merry Christmas &
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

     


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on December 23, 2017, 07:26:34 am
Dear Joey,

I'm feeling well trumped by your Christmas bling bottle.

I questioned my bottle being sandwiched as I didn't consider the gold and cinnabar red splashes to be a layer as such. If I bought a sandwich with that little filling in it I would ask for my money back  ;)

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 23, 2017, 08:01:13 am
I really enjoyed the Christmas trees !

Joey,

Have you tried casting some lights to those ' gems ' ?

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 23, 2017, 09:07:50 am
Dear Inn Bok,

     I don't understand. But I plan to show my bottle to a gem expert.
What if Giovanni was right, and it is covered by real gems?
WOW!
Best,
Merry Christmas,
Joey

I really enjoyed the Christmas trees !

Joey,

Have you tried casting some lights to those ' gems ' ?

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: OIB on December 23, 2017, 09:15:18 am
Joey,

I was not trying to find out if those embellished stones are really gemstones.

I was thinking if you were to shine on the bottle, how it will turn out, visually   :D

Inn Bok


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 23, 2017, 10:50:37 am
Dear Inn Bok,

     Oh. I tried that with a strong torch [flashlight for Americans  ::)], and it is gorgeous.  I will try to get it photographed with lights and post it, via
Steven.
Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: NE collector on December 24, 2017, 06:05:08 am
Dear Joey,

What a great bottle. I love it! As a girl would say, you can never have enough bling!

Best,

Toni-Lee


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on December 24, 2017, 06:20:54 am
Dear Toni-Lee,

     And there is a certain type of man who would agree with you!  ::) ;) ;D
But in snuff bottles, I usually tend to go for top quality, but not too 'flash'.

     My two real exceptions are this bottle and the 18th C. Imperial Jet bottle which was embellished by a Japanese Living National Treasure in 2008/2009 on behalf of Robert Hall Ltd., who sold it to the late Carl Barron. I bought it as a 60th birthday gift for myself on 15.March 2017, 2 days before my secular birthday [and 2 days after my Hebrew birthday this year].

    I think we posted that one too.

   Merry Christmas to you and all who celebrate,
   Best,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 12, 2018, 09:21:45 am
I don't have a Friday Fun Bottle so it will have to be Friday Fun Fabric instead.

I want to make a display cabinet for my bottles and thought this would be ideal for the back lining.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Fiveroosters on January 12, 2018, 11:47:30 am
Dear Adrian,
what is that fabric? Have you found it? You said nothing. Is it new or old?
It looks very nice!
Giovanni


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on January 12, 2018, 01:22:02 pm
Very attractive.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on January 12, 2018, 01:25:38 pm
Dear Adrian,

    Where did you find that fabric?
Amazing!,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 12, 2018, 02:16:12 pm
Dear Giovanni and Joey,

It's a new fabric that I had sent from China and was bought through a site called Etsy. It has taken some time to arrive and I couldn't find it again when I looked at the sellers listing so it may have all been sold.

I'm surprised the makers of the padded snuff bottle boxes haven't used it.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on January 12, 2018, 02:42:52 pm
Too bad!  Once you get it see if it has a manufacturers name or pattern number.  If so I will be happy to research and see if we can find the source.  I think many of the collectors would love to have some of this fabric.  I  also have an interior designer friend who might be able to find it for us if it is one of those fabrics that has to be purchased through a designer.  The thrill of the hunt for snuff bottles and snuff bottle fabric!!!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Joey on January 12, 2018, 03:57:45 pm
I like it, but still prefer the traditional Song Dynasty brocade pattern, used for hundreds of years to cover the padded boxes which hold scrolls, snuff bottles and other art works. I was thinking it would be great for drapes in my study/ collection space...
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on January 12, 2018, 04:17:00 pm
Absolutely!


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Rube on January 12, 2018, 04:21:03 pm
Nice Adrian!

Cheers,

Rube.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 13, 2018, 04:26:38 am
I will see if I can contact the seller and find out if it is still available for anyone who may be interested.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: NE collector on January 13, 2018, 04:41:30 am
Hi Adrian,

I really like the fabric. Nice find! I would be interested in some yardage should it be available for purchase. I would like to use it for a valance in my office. I would appreciate any information you have on the source.

Thank you.

Regards,

Toni-Lee


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: forestman on January 15, 2018, 03:49:34 am
Sorry but the seller has replied that she has no more stock and wasn't able to supply a manufacturers name.

Regards, Adrian.


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: Wattana on January 15, 2018, 04:02:59 am
Hi Adrian,

The bidding could be quite intense, if you ever decide to auction your length of cloth....  8)

Regards,
Tom


Title: Re: Friday Fun Bottle
Post by: joearp on January 15, 2018, 05:15:16 am
Yes it could!!!  If you do see any manufacturer name or number on the fabric once you get it let us know.  We might be able to trace it down unless it is a vintage piece.  Enjoy your beautiful find Adrian.