Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

Greetings!!!
I'm so excited about my new bottles that came today and I plan to post them all (don't worry there are only four). I got them all from an east coast antique dealer. They all belonged to the same collector.

This was presented to me as pink jade, but I have never seen pink jade this hot pink. However, I don't know a lot about gemology, so perhaps I'm wrong. A possibility that occurred to me is that it might be opaque ruby which sometimes does look this pink.

I don't think the stone has been dyed based on the age of the other bottles in the collection, but realize I shouldn't rule that out.

Then on the other hand, I have read that the Chinese were so skilled with glass that they could make glass look just like jade. I got out my 10x jewelers loupe and carefully looked for bubbles, and can't find any air bubbles, but do see some natural inclusions so that's positive.

So my question is, do you think this is worth sending to the GIA for a positive identification? Or perhaps another collector has seen another bottle similar to this and can point me in the right direction for identification.

No matter what, this must have been a lady's most prized possession at one time, and now it's mine!

Wonderful bottle !

There may well be a few possibilities, but lets start with a simple scratch test.. Problem is, I am not sure where the safest spot to scratch might be.  So before you take my suggestion and try to scratch the inside of the throat, lets see what others have to say..

Thank you George! It's so nice to get a confirmation that it is a wonderful bottle! I am so trepidatious about my uneducated eye!

There are a number of possibilities for this bottle. Off-hand I can't think of any natural stone which has this distinctive colour, but several types can be heat treated or dyed to alter their original colour, and this is possibly the case here.

The stopper looks like either jadeite, or glass imitating jadeite.

Can you let us know how tall the bottle is, without it's stopper?

Yes of course! Sorry to omit that. It is small - it's 1.75 inches without the stopper.

I just thought the stopper was glass. I will take a look with my loupe to confirm.

Yes, found an air bubble - the top is definitely glass.

There is a series of miniature aubergine shaped bottles in the Blair Collection (see Hughes, Michael C. 'The Blair Bequest: Chinese Snuff Bottles from the Princeton University Art Museum.' International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society. Baltimore, 2002).

They date to the 1800s, and are a bit slimmer than yours, but of similar height.

Thanks for the reference Tom! I will go look it up

Dear Cathy,

     I think it is glass imitation of a type of stone pebble bottle. Quite pleasing.
Best,
Joey

Oh my! I could buy a nice bottle for the price of that book!

I don't have the book to hand. It's sitting at home, and I don't have a scanner.

If anyone has the Michael Hughes book AND a scanner, they are the last four bottles in the book (if memory serves).

Thanks Joey - Lilla Perry's comments keep coming to mind about her own glass bottle that was a dead ringer for jade. I do have an account with the GIA, and think that I might send it just to be sure. I don't think I can stand to have an open mystery on my hands! But it might take me a few months of admiring it before I will let it go away for a couple of months.

And no worries about scanning the book - I just got it on Amazon. But thank you!

No problem, Cathy, but the scanning suggestion was Tom's.
Best,
Joey

Cathy,

I suspect your bottle is glass imitating pink tourmaline.  Charll

Thank you Charll - if it's glass, it's a master of illusion! It's heavy, it feels like stone, it even has tiny inclusions under my 10x loupe. You guys must be right though, and so my hats off to the maker of this bottle for pulling off an incredible imitation! The only thing wrong is the color, but at the same time that was the very thing that attracted me to it.

Dear Cathy,

     Based on Mrs. Perry's story, I kept putting my glass imitation of a white Nephrite Jade pebble bottle (#20 in my 1987 catalogue), in with my Jades. But because of my Asperger's, would say, "That's an imitation of Jade in glass!", before anyone could look at it!  So I stopped and returned it to my boxes of Glass...
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

#20 in your exhibition is stunning!

Dear Cathy,

    Thank you. And like yours, except for the shininess of the glass, the weighted bottle could really almost pass for a stone bottle.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

To followup on this - I got the Blair Bequest book and I don't think the aubergines are a good match because they are in porcelain (see page 236). However, it does closely resemble the one on page 117, number 113 an eggplant made of glass.
I'm attaching a photo of it.

Dear Cathy,

     That Aubergine (Eggplant) bottle is a stunner. And the Jadeite stem stopper is even better than the bottle!
Best,
Joey

You are right about those four miniature bottles in the Blair book. I couldn't remember that they were porcelain - it was the small size that made me think of them.
The one you have posted here is a much better match! With a little polishing, yours could look even better.

Joey - the stopper is lovely on the eggplant.

Tom - the book also has a picture of a melon that is similar, so it looks like it was a fruit theme. It also says there are very few recorded glass bottles in this shape, which was usually carved in nephrite. It goes on to say that although both glass and nephrite examples may have come from the same workshop. the known glass examples have a flattened base, enabling them to stand, whereas all the nephrite examples taper naturally to a point.

Mind has the flattened base.

But if you look closely it's an opaque white bottle that is very finely painted, and that's a big difference with mine. Mine appears to be the same material throughout.

It references Hugh Moss Chinese Snuff Bottles number 235 and Snuff Bottles in the Collection of the National Place Museum No. 115 and No. 112 so I would very much like to see those examples. I don't have the books yet, but will have to get them!

 

Cathy,

Here is another similar bottle for comparison.   Charll

Link: https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/46981792_a-tourmaline-snuff-bottle

Of naturalistic similar tourmaline (glass) pebble form with slightly white speckled inclusion, with a spinach-green tone stopper.

Height: 3 1/8 in (7.9 cm)

Stunning colour on that bottle Charll.
But from the photos it doesn't look like tourmaline.

Tom

Dear Charll,
that bottle from Liveauctioneer is clearly glass, look at the picture of the base. Note that they are selling it as Tourmaline!
Dear Cathy, I am convinced that you bottle too is glass. Can you post a picture of the base? It is glass because of the color, and also it seems to me to see round swirls around the mouth, but that can be the picture.
Dear Tom, is it correct to polish it? I would not polish it if it were mine, it will take away the signs of the time.
Kind regards
Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,

I agree, it looks like pink glass.

As for polishing, that is a matter of personal taste. I cannot say if it is correct or not. The important thing is not to damage the item with abrasive or chemical polishing materials. A clean soft cloth is often all that is needed.

Regards,
Tom

Giovanni,

I knew this bottle to be glass just from looking at the base as you described.  As indicated by the comments, this one definitely appears to have some age, and I was just providing the post as a comparison for Cathy's benefit.

Charll 

Hahahaha I had already spotted that bottle and had come to the same conclusion. The one on Live Auctioneers is glass or crystal. Huge difference! If people think they are paying for tourmaline that bottle will go for a very high price - when it is definitely not tourmaline!

I am convinced now that mine is crystal. I just took a picture of the base and am attaching it. The glass pulling from the base is not as evident on mine, but I think it's still there.

I just did a specific gravity test on mine and it comes back as 2.6

I do hope that glass tourmaline bottle on live auctioneers fetches a high price - because that will make mine worth more! hahaha  ;D

I have made this my "signature" bottle because it's one of the first ones I bought

Dear Charll,
Please apologize, I did not understand correctly your second sentence after the link. I stuck on the first sentence, “here is a similar bottle” when the bottle, at that stage, was thought to be mineral by many.
Dear Cathy, your picture is out of focus, if there are swirl glass there, it is not possible to see them.
Kind regards
Giovanni

Sorry Giovanni - my photography is not very good!
I tried again. See if this is better. You can't see streaks at the bottom of mine.

Dear Cathy, thank you. Poor picture, but with a great detail: the nice old concave base. You did not mention this detail up to now, if I am not wrong. Dear Cathy, remember that the base is absolutely one of the most important detail in judging a bottle, it is always important to show it.
Kind regards
Giovanni

Dear Cathy,

    I don't understand. What do you mean by 'crystal'? As in, "I am convinced now that mine is crystal."?
If it is quartz (and it's not), it isn't glass. If it is lead crystal, it is not old. Actually, if it is lead crystal, I don't know WHEN it was made.

    My thought is that it is weighted glass, and probably ca.1830-1930. I know this is a wide range of dates, but I can see it as Daoguang period, and I can equally see it as Republic. And anywhere in between.

   Oh, and I agree with Giovanni. The foot/base and mouth/neck are very important and can contain clues helping us to decide on a bottle's period.

Best,
Joey
     

Dear Joey,

By crystal - I meant weighted glass. I guess I need to go look up the difference.

As you know, I don't know what I'm doing yet, and this bottle is a curiosity. I "think" it's glass imitating stone, but I can find no air bubbles and the specific gravity puts it in the quartz, beryl family. Plus the texture is so much like stone, I am constantly second guessing it.

But the similarity of my bottle to the one that has just shown up on live auctioneers makes me now feel certain it must be glass because the pull marks on the bottom are so evident on that one.

I will make sure I include the base in photos from now on!

 ;D ;D

 

Dear Cathy,
   
     You need to pay attention to terms, be more careful in using them, and not throw around those you don't understand.
'Crystal' is glass with a certain percentage of lead ('Lead Crystal'), usually 20%-35%.
'Weighted glass' is weighted glass.
Please don't 'inflate' your descriptions. It just makes them less believable, and seems 'unserious'. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be serious.
Best,
Joey

Ok, so I get it this is a no fun zone!

How am I inflating my description? I am trying to describe it as accurately as I know how at present.

Dear Cathy,

     We enjoy sharing real knowledge, and find it 'fun'. There is also a Joke thread, or there was, for 'Levity'.
Re.bottles, you are right. We take them very seriously.
When I'm not sure of a term, I 'google' it first (or use another way to check it is accurate and relevant), and
then decide whether to use it. 
But yes, you are doing much better. Kudos.  BAZINGA! (A reference to "Big Bang Theory" Sheldon Cooper)
Best,
Joey