Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇

After a long summer break from snuff bottles, I went to see my small dealer in Shenzhen last Thursday and was surprised to find this lovely little bottle, quite different to the other bottles she has.


(https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW1A.jpg&hash=97504fd2cc9c2b9e5639c99f06e0a674) (https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW1B.jpg&hash=abcd52d4dac4a1f4a7db881fddb846e9)

It stands only 6cm tall, one of my smallest bottles, an unusual shape with a very long neck, and is crystal glass with delicately painted snow scenes.

(https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW2A.jpg&hash=6adb9df47ee99a8e56c866e2bd48774d) (https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW2B.jpg&hash=2912986efbdd58694474a1d655f87c5d)

The painting date appears to be 2007 (although the bottle looks older? - any thoughts?)
The artists name is clearly a pen name.


(https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW3A.jpg&hash=c9a9affff5bf2865895f113e26c1a6c1) (https://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geoffwelch46.com%2FSNOW3B.jpg&hash=a13febc1eea262dd58cc02b73e29feb6)

Any comments/translations of the bottle title and/or the artists name gratefully received.

Geoff

Hi Geoff

Nice  bottle !

Next time  you  go  to  SZ  let  me  know  and if  I'm free  I will  go with  you

Cheers

Peter

Dear Geoff,

     I loved Winter scenes. I have a number, notably one from Wang Xisan, A-14 in my catalogue "Worlds In A Bottle", and one by Liu Kunyan (A-15 in "Worlds") . I also have a beauty by Chen Runpu (B-8 in "Worlds").

     Are you sure this bottle is 'crystal glass' (I call it 'lead crystal'), and not 'rock crystal', which I refer to as 'quartz', the scientific name, to lessen confusion? It looks to me like it is quartz.

    By the way, I don't like the long neck, since it resembles a miniature vase shape. In fact, I 'downgraded' a Daoguang B & W dragon theme 'bottle' in my collection to a vase, and put it in one of my 'treasure boxes' (padded boxes holding ten or more objects of assorted materials, ages and sizes, though each fitting in a space 100 ml x 50 ml x 50 ml (4 inches x 2 inches x 2 inches), so I can 'play' with different miniature Chinese treasures at one time).

   But I do like the painting on your bottle. Congratulations!
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

Thanks Joey

Where can I find your book Worlds in a Bottle? I don't have a copy.

Also I guess it is quartz, I really don't know how to tell quartz from rock crystal. I just know it's not ordinary glass.

Yes, the shape is odd. But this bottle is so small I can't call it a vase. The painting area is no more than 3 cm high.

I'm still interested to know what the title is, and what the painter's pen name is, at least. Can anyone help?

Geoff

PS Peter. I took the decision to go to Shenzhen at the last minute. Never can predict.

Hi Geoff

The title is Rui Xue Feng Nian .... Auspicious snow in a year of plenty

I am not sure about the pen name... Could be Shao Shi.

Dear Geoff,
 
     'Quartz' IS 'Rock Crystal'. I assume you mean, how to tell 'Quartz' from 'Lead Crystal'.
Really simple. If you keep your bottles in padded boxes, as I do, remove and immediately hold against your cheek. Quartz, a stone, is much colder than man-made Lead Crystal, and it is immediately noticeable when held against a cheek (unless you have a beard; then I'm stumped), the most temperature sensitive part of one's body easily accessible.
    If you display them all, like Peter, take the bottle, put it in a box for an hour or two. Then take out of box and follow instructions as above.
Best,
Joey

Hi All

In Chinese  - as   far  as  I am  aware -   "crystal"  aka   quartz   is   水 晶

From then  on  the only  differentiation in Chinese  is   as to whether  it  is  natural crystal  (i.e.  rock  quartz) or   man-made crystal,  but  both  are  chemically  the  same 

As to whether they  have a  different  thermal conductivity   and/or   specific heat (which are the  only  possible  explanations  for  what  Joey calls the "cheek"  test)   I am   not  sure.

I  forget my  chemistry  in  detail  but as  far as  I  recall  "lead glass" is  just  one  variety - although a  top class  variety -  of  "glass"  in general.    But to make   things  more  confusing ,  "lead  glass" is  often  referred to  as "crystal  glass"    e.g.  as  in  a  typical  advertising  blurb :  " these   fine-cut ,  carved  wine   glasses  are   made  of (lead) crystal  glass"

From  Google :  Lead glass is a variety of glass in which lead replaces the calcium content of a typical potash glass. Lead glass contains typically 18–40 weight% lead(II) oxide (PbO), while modern lead crystal, historically also known as flint glass due to the original silica source, contains a minimum of 24% PbO.

GEORGE :  You  are the  expert  on this ! 

Cheers
Peter

PS :

GEOFF : Unless  it's a  photographic mistake  that  bottle  seems to have  greyish   streaks in the  material. If  so  it  must  be   real   natural  rock crystal (quartz)  because  one of the   distinguishing  features  of  natural  crystal (quartz)   is that it  often  - indeed usually -  has  tiny  imperfections, whereas  man-made crystal (quartz)  is  defect-free.

Hi Geoff,

This is a lovely bottle,  I was trying to find out  the artist, but no luck so far.

As Pin pointed out the inscription can be red"瑞雪丰年， 丁亥秋，少石？作“  Same as Pin, I am not sure of the pen name, Looks like shao shi.

Steven

No expert here...  I am going along with everything you and Joey said !  :)

Dear Geoff,

You have got all the Chinese wording translated from the experts here.
The meaning to the title as suggested by BaiDu is, "瑞雪兆丰年 - A fall of seasonable snow gives promise of a fruitful year."

Has anyone tried painting in a bottle? Even before I can think of what to paint, I have to try my best to get the brush into the bottle without smudging the precious paint onto the neck much less a long neck like this bottle.

Cheers,
YT

Thanks All

I've tried Joey's cheek test on this bottle and a glass one, on both me (I don't have a beard) and my wife.
This bottle is definitely colder, so it both looks like (according to Peter) and feels like (according to Joey) natural rock crystal quartz. (It's good to get Peter and Joey to agree).

If it's natural rock crystal, can you tell if it's an older bottle or a modern one?

Thanks YT, I can now fully understand the title because one side clearly shows the seasonal fall of snow and the other shows the promise of a fruitful year, with blossom on the trees. 

Geoff

Sorry Geoff,

I forgot to translate the rest of the inscript, " painted in the autumn of 2007 by shao shi"

The painting is very modern, so its no doubt a contemporary bottle.

Steven

Dear Geoff,

      There is a HUGE modern production of quartz (or 'natural crystal', as Peter correctly quotes from the Chinese) snuff bottles, and other miniature objects. 99.999% it is a modern bottle.

Dear YT,

     I watched Wang Xisan paint part of my Guanyin bottle in Honolulu in 1981 during the ICSBS convention there. He was at the opening of the Andrades Friendship Store in the Royal Hawaiian Shopping Center on Kalakaua Ave.

     He would put a dab of the colour he wanted to paint at the point where the mouth met the neck, and then bring out the tip of the brush that far, and back in to apply the paint. So he used the interior of the neck as his palette, in effect.

Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

Is that how to paint?? I was struggling in front of this so called lady master and she didn't tell me.
Hahaha, thanks for the info.

Cheers,
YT

Dear YT,

    In 1981 I watched Wang Xisan for over an hr., and that was how he did it. He had a little sponge on a brush to do washes, but also to clean the interior of the neck when he wanted to do a different colour. It was facinating the first 20 min. or so, but then got real old real quick; but I didn't know how to politely excuse myself. When I wanted to photograph him, he insisted on putting on his PRC medals first. Then I thought of going to the loo,  and I got out.  ;D ::)
Best,
Joey