Gui XiangGu or Ma Shaoxuan

[Steven]

Sorry Steven, had to edit this post to include a link to the bottle. For what ever reason am not able to merge any two topics in the order I choose. Will try to fix and then change this back to original asap.

This from George's bottle at this topic.

Hi George,

The horse, mountain, leaves on the horse side look like from Ye family, but the trees on the other sides don't match Ye family style exactly. A little bit tough for me on this one, might need to do more research on it .

Steven

Look the horses on my bottle.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear George and Steven,
 
      I love them both. Any chance the first is an unsigned Zhou Leyuan?  The way the sweep of the tree branches go, I wondered.
Whatever, I think both are very nice Middle period bottles.
Really, "Nice Collection!"
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

[George]

Thank you Steven.. Much appreciated.  This is the only other one besides the amber bottle that I would like to make an offer on.

Joey, I think the reverse trees are not ZLY in style..

I think the actual glass bottle could be Earlier than MP.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear George,
 
     I thought the first one was Quartz, and possibly the second as well. The shape of the second reminds me of a milk glass bottle from the late 18th C. that I once bought because it was very cheap. I thought it was a blank, blown to imitate a flower basket, and was meant to be enamelled in that design in the Palace Workshops, but never had been for whatever reason. I was correct, but I bought it so cheaply (just under US$50 in 1979),  I ended up giving it as a gift 10 years later, to a young new snuff bottle collector in North Andover, MA.

     Tomorrow, I will pull out my Zhou Leyuan bottles, and compare them to the pics. You may be right that the trees are not in his style, but
I am not yet sure.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

[George]

I agree with you Steven about possible Ye Family.. Especially as you noted the horse/mountain/leaves side of bottle. The horse is surely Ye Family style, but I think most certainly Ye Zhongsan the Elder.
  
But wanted to also show a pic of the actual bottle.. The strangest inclusions within. Not on the surface. It must be rock crystal.. No air bubbles ! I just have not held a quartz bottle that looks quite like this..

The bottle at 2 3/4" height also seems quite heavy.. 

[Wattana]

George,

The bottle before last exhibits typical characteristics of natural quartz crystal:
1. the internal fissure with irridescence (rainbow effect)
2. the wispy opaque streaks visible near the base
3. the bottle's weight

Can't help you with identifying the artist though.

Tom

[George]

Thank you Tom... 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear George,

    Both the last two look to me like quartz. And I definitely think the one with the horse is Ye Zhongsan the elder.
Best,
Joey

[George]

Browsing the forum and found Pat's Ye Zhongsan 8 horses of Wang Mu bottle for comparison to mine.

But.., there is one noticeable thing that I can not find on any other Ye Family horse, or any other Ye studio painted animal. That is the eye showing on the one horse .. It is slanted up and down from forehead to cheek, unlike every other Ye Family painted animal that I can find where the eyes are always slanted forward. 

Hard to imagine any Ye Family member painting the eyes so different from how they are normally painted.. I think everything else about the horse matches ok, but that is kind of a deal breaker for me believing mine is Ye Studio painted. But strange as it may be, that out of character slant may be a little clue to the real artist some day..

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1637.0.html

Guessing yours about 1895/1896 Pat ?? 

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Can't recall exactly on mine it is either 1896 or 1898. I also don't believe this is a Ye bottle . My bet is on Zhang Baotian also due to the color scheme. Notice that the horse's manes are also painted differently than by Ye family.

[George]

Can't recall exactly on mine it is either 1896 or 1898. I also don't believe this is a Ye bottle . My bet is on Zhang Baotian also due to the color scheme. Notice that the horse's manes are also painted differently than by Ye family.

I have been looking at the horses mane and thought it a little off.  Thanks Pat, that also will be a little clue in the future ..

I also think you may be on to something regarding Zhang Baotian.. At least a quick glance at a couple landscape paintings appear quite similar, in style, and as you noted, the color scheme..

Good eye Pat, and thank you... I will do more searching ..

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Pat & George,

    I feel shamed before you two! I thought that I was a student of details, but I never thought to look at the slant of the eyes or the way the manes were painted.
I am very impressed.
I'm visiting Steven right now, and just saw (yesterday) my new Zi Yizi.
Again, thank you George.
Thank you both for opening up my eyes, though I still don't know the way they slant! 
Best to you both,
Joey

[George]

I know you and Steve are enjoying your time together...

Have fun, and glad the Zi Yizi bottle is with you..

Thanks back at you Joey

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Thanks for the compliment Joey! Enjoy the company of Steven and family ...

[George]

The similarities between artists like Zhou LeYuan, and Zhang Boatian/Zhang Shaoyuan can be quite mixed. For me, it becomes almost an impossible task to differentiate for sure. Especially with so few comparisons for Zhang Boatian available. But educational ... !

Trying to compare horses, eyes, manes, background and foreground is difficult. I don't want to go into a long rant as I tend to do at times. So....

For example, Stevens ( #1 ) suspected to be either artist shows the horses mane very similar to ZLY #4, yet the trees in the background for both are different. Those trees could be matched also to Bob Stevens #2. Yet the horses as a whole are not similar. You get the idea, and we can go through these and find similar mixed and matched parts to paintings between the two artists.

If I had to compare any one to the horse side of my bottle, it would be Bob Stevens which he attributed to Kue Hsiangku/Gui Xianggu. Yet the tree behind Bob's bottle Looks to be same style as ZLY #4, and Stevens #1.

It is extra interesting how the stance of the horses in 1, 4, and 6 are dead ringers. Same posture on a slight hill, head lowered, legs same position, even right down to how they are pointed slightly downward. I bet we could lay one on top the other and could not tell the difference.  Also interesting how all the horses except for mine are pointed to the left. My horse is opposite, but that might mean nothing.

So for the horse side of my bottle, I doubt will be able to nail it down for sure. But.., if I was to take a guess, It matches so well to Bob ( #2 ) that I wish for sure could verify Bob's attribution to it being painted by Giu Xianggu. Interesting as well are the downward, forehead to cheek pointed eyes, instead of straight forward. I can not find any Giu Xianggu painted horses or landscape paintings for additional comparisons.

Ok, will quit rambling, share a few pics and move on to the landscape side

[AntPeople]

Hi George

I think I saw an example of Gui XiangGu recently that has a very similar horse and the tree painted in similar style.... Will try to find it tomorrow and you can make a comparison

Pin

[George]

Hi George

I think I saw and example of Gui XiangGu recently that has a very similar horse and the tre painted in similar style.... Will try to find it tomorrow and you can make a comparison

Pin

That would be great , and thanks Pin.

[George]

Well look what I just found Pin ... !

Horse to the far left.. Gui Xianggu , 1898

Although the three combined are not exactly matched, lets see if anyone can spot some of the stand out similarities, and as well, the reason for intentional differences ..

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20309/lot/166/

[George]

Also just found Charll's Gui Xianggu bottle... 

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2658.0.html

[AntPeople]

Hi George :

Wonder if you have found this







Pin