Can this be a YongShouTian Bottle

[AntPeople]

Hi All :

Is this a Yong ShouTian bottle ? I try to check the internet and there are some examples that show similar painted subject ........ wonder if this is a real one....

YeePin

[George]

Yes YeePin, it is a warrior theme Yong Shoutian painted bottle.

You can also see his signature within the script .. It appears to be dated 1920.

Bill has some wonderful information for Yong Shoutian ...

http://snuffbottlecollector.com/yong_shou_tien/yong_shou_tien_00.htm

[AntPeople]

Hi George :

Thanks for the quick answer....

I also notice that sometimes he signed his bottle as 永寿田，but other time, he signed them as 永受田。Although they sounds the same in Chinese, but wonder why he will substitute 寿 with 受 at time?

Thanks a lot ...

[George]

We will have to let one of our Chinese speaking/writing members help with that ... 

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi Yee Pin

I'm not  an  expert  on the  Middle  Period,  but  that  bottle  looks to me  like a  modern  fake

Remember that   fake-copy  artists  can  copy  the  "signature"  as  easily  as they can  copy the  picture

Sorry to  say

Cheers

Peter

PS:  The  Yong  Youtian   pics  on Bill Patrick's  website www.snuffbottlecollector.com   were   done  by me,  taken   from  CIPMA

[Steven]

It looks like a perfect genuine Yong Shoutian to me, the painting style is identical with the one on Bill's site.

I actually thought about this: his style is very unique, short outline strokes with solid color filled in. very similar with the modern artist Zhen Yu, ofcoz, Zhen Yu can do much detail job than YST.

[AntPeople]

Hi All :

Thanks for all your reply.......... was away for work for sometime....

I went to the web and found some YST bottles for comparison.... tot of posting them too

Bottle 1







Bottle 2







Bottle 3





Bottle 4





All the bottles are suppose to be YST...... IMO, Bottle 1 and Bottle 2 looks quite similar to the original posted bottle......... Bottle 4 is way off..........
Bottle 3 is close but I think it seems to be different from the rest.

Any comment......... Thanks a lot

Yee Pin

[George]

Pat shared a while back that there is a chance that bottles like your #4 could be a Tang Zichuan painted due to the vibrant colors that are unlike Yong Shoutian .

Bottle 3, although a bit of an unusual Yong Shoutian theme, I would still vote it painted by him..

I agree that 1, and 2 are Yong Shoutian..

Lets see what others might think..

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Some dead giveaways on Tang Zichuan which I have noticed over the years are 2 colors rarely if ever used by other middle period artists, dark blue and burgundy red, in addition to his particular style which sets him apart.

There is a point of view by some Chinese collectors that because Yong Shou Tian (YST) stopped painting (or died) in 1926, that

1) any YST bottle with simplified Chinese calligraphy is by an imposter/student/relative
2) many YST bottles with traditional Chinese writing have a variation of signature style which implies he had followers/students corroborating point number 1
3) the mere fact that there are so many YST bottles found even today supports points 1 and 2

So in my view:

Bottle 3 and Bottle 4 are by a student/follower in my mind

[wgeoff]

What about this one Pat?



I acquired it from Bill Patrick who marked it 'Yong Shoutien style', which it clearly is.
It's a large bottle, 10cm tall and 7cm broad and has no calligraphy.

Would the colours indicate Tang Zichuan to you? Or maybe a pupil of Yong Shoutien?

Geoff

[Pat - 查尚杰]

George

Bottle is too big for the Tang Zi Chuan period. They came into vogue in the 1910s but the colors are more his style indeed.